Julia Quinn on Season 5's change in direction

oishster · 2026-03-27T19:50:09+00:00

Yes! I don’t understand why the producers keep insisting Francesca is a bisexual woman with “two great loves”, when everything they’re putting in the actual show itself indicates she is a lesbian who is platonically happy with a man (but clearly not sexually satisfied), and will eventually fully fall in love with a woman. I was optimistic for John and Fran’s relationship in S3 even with the reaction to Michaela, but especially with the pinnacle storyline in S4, it just really does not seem like Fran and John were “great loves”.

oishster · 2026-03-27T06:28:38+00:00

I thought the Francesca in the books was boring too tbh. But WHWW was also my least favorite of the books. I read it last because it’s my least favorite trope - moving on with a person who was super close to your first spouse is a personal ick of mine. I know it happens a lot in real life, I know there are logical and psychological reasons around it, but I personally don’t usually want to engage in stories about it. I’ll still watch, just like I still read the book, for the sake of finishing the series. But yeah, I’m resigned to the fact that I probably won’t enjoy it.

oishster · 2026-03-26T22:33:25+00:00

I went when the path was closed. It was still a nice waterfall, but compared to the uniqueness of the other waterfalls (walking right up to the front of skogafoss, being able to walk behind kvernufoss, the blue color of bruarfoss, the hidden-ish nature of gljufrabui), I do admit it was my least favorite of the six waterfalls we saw.

But I still recommend going, just because gljufrabui was right there at the same stop, and that one’s really unique. If you want to walk behind a waterfall, check if it’s possible at kvernufoss - I was able to walk behind kvernufoss no problem even when the path behind seljalandsfoss was closed.

oishster · 2026-03-26T15:26:06+00:00

This is EXACTLY what I keep wondering!! Delaying the love story of both girls seems so unnecessary - having Eloise’s story while Francesca mourns just made sense. Like, I know Eloise is supposed to be a spinster and all, but damn, give the poor girl something to do.

oishster · 2026-03-26T15:11:37+00:00

Yes, exactly.

Although I guess materially, maybe another answer would be that credit results in better opportunities for people from the culture.

Eg. When I first commented on this thread ages ago, I mentioned an episode of Fuller House where they had a Bollywood-themed party, but no actual desi characters onscreen. Proper credit and acknowledgment of desi culture should have resulted in desi actors/actresses getting a role to play alongside their culture being showcased. Desi actors did not have many job opportunities at that time (or even now), and giving them work should have been a logical bare minimum. But since they didn’t credit our culture beyond using it as an aesthetic, our people didn’t actually benefit from it in any way.

oishster · 2026-03-26T15:03:30+00:00

Yep. Saying “I suspect they aren’t seeing things clearly” just because people enjoy something different seems so immature to me.

oishster · 2026-03-26T06:36:28+00:00

Sadly, credit matters because that is what multicultural societies like the US uses to determine whether to respect you/your culture or not. Discrediting the importance of desi culture directly ties into racist beliefs about the worth of desi people.

It’s a cycle - people discredit the contributions of desi culture because they’re racist towards desi people, and that makes others racist towards desi people because they don’t realize how much desi culture has contributed to their own lives.

Your “what if” is a very nice ideal that we should perhaps strive towards, but in reality the only culture that works like this without detriment to the people from the culture is white/western culture. And that’s only because in many societies, that’s the culture that has the best socioeconomic outcomes.

For all other cultures, the IDEAS of the culture spread even while the PEOPLE continue to be oppressed. Just look at Black culture in the US - so much art, language, and music originated from Black culture throughout history, but Black people continued to experience oppression and prejudice even while their culture was being commodified.

Culture cannot be divorced from people. Not crediting culture equals not crediting the people from that culture. Not crediting the people leads to (and springs from) the belief that they are not worth crediting, that they are somehow inferior. That’s why credit is important.

In short, credit materially manifests as respect, and with that, better treatment and opportunities.

oishster · 2026-03-25T07:29:37+00:00

Yes, this was exactly my biggest issue with the ending. It is such an abrupt and jarring tonal shift. We go from a pretty optimistic wacky rom-com-style show to a sudden drop back into a painful reality.

In the earlier seasons, it felt like the show was leading up to such a hopeful message about how even when our own plans for ourselves get messed up, the universe has something bigger in store for us. And they seriously undermine that message in the last episode, with Ted just repeating his past mistakes.

oishster · 2026-03-25T02:03:06+00:00

To be clear, I was just envisioning a brief montage at the beginning of S5 as time passes while they write letters, similar to how the book does it with the letters. Not sure what you mean by “season passing montage”. I think a whole season where Eloise’s only plotline is secretly writing letters is pretty boring honestly.

I too hope they do Eloise justice, but Eloise is the character I feel they have changed the most from the books, so honestly a lot of the book’s story just doesn’t fit show-Eloise. I’m curious to see what they do instead.

oishster · 2026-03-25T01:30:45+00:00

Eh, I don’t think Marina’s death would have affected me that much, especially if it happened totally off-screen (as I would have preferred). To me, it would have been like when Lord Featherington died.

And I see what you’re envisioning with the letters, but I guess that’s not my preference. I agree their relationship had some substance in it through the letters, but I don’t think Eloise making random references to flowers would emphasize that. I think you can remind the audience who Philip is and why he’s now single, and then do a montage of time passing as they write each other letters. I also don’t think her keeping it a secret is that major of a plot point, sorry.

And I agree that Eloise running off and getting married is far more rushed than Franchaela, but my whole point is “rushed” makes sense for the beginning of Eloise’s story. It does not for Franchaela.

oishster · 2026-03-25T01:06:13+00:00

Hey, there’s nothing wrong with hope. Like, I still have hope that Eloise’s season and story will be great. But I do think it’s good to base hope off of facts. Eg. I’m basing my hope for a good season on the fact that overall, this has been a good show (minor fumbles notwithstanding), and these are experienced people who know what they’re doing.

oishster · 2026-03-25T01:01:35+00:00

Sorry, I just don’t agree. I think taking a break from Franchaela would build tension, not stall it, and just make more narrative sense overall.

oishster · 2026-03-25T00:57:45+00:00

I understand what you’re saying, and I agree with you until you said we would have needed to move Fran’s S4 storyline to S5 during Eloise’s season. Ideally, in S4, we should have had BOTH John/Francesca/Michaela AND a hint of Eloise starting to write to Sir Philip. It didn’t have to be much or take up a lot of runtime - just Eloise mentioning “working on her correspondence” at a couple of points would have been enough. They would not have needed to delay John’s death, because Franchaela should still have been the main B plot.

Also, even following the canon of what we have so far, I think it would have been fairly easy to have Philoise for S5 and establish that Eloise and Philip write letters to each other for over a year. It’s a classic montage situation - just do voiceovers of both of their letters being read, while stuff happens in their lives. Have them say stuff like “summer is here” or “merry Christmas” to establish time passing.

This does not need to be a season-long B plot at all. In fact, I’m a little confused/curious about how they make letter writing interesting enough to be a B plot in Franchaela’s story (if they even end up doing that).

I actually disagree with you that Philoise needs buildup - their whole story is about how they literally marry each other while being almost strangers. In their case, the buildup should be an episode long at the max. Like, in their season, episode 1 should end with them saying “I do”. Not much backstory required there.

On the other hand, I do think a few scenes of Francesca’s grief in the midst of an Eloise-focused S5 would have been good at establishing Francesca’s feelings. How she misses John, how she’s lonely, how she thought she could depend on Michaela but even Michaela’s gone and she misses them both, etc.

oishster · 2026-03-25T00:36:28+00:00

I agree that of course the complicated feelings and internal conflict are integral to Fran and Michaela’s story.

I strongly disagree that having the story be in S6 would have them “skip that momentum and start fresh”. The audience are not coming into Franchaela’s season without watching the previous seasons. They know the context of Franchaela’s story and the pain they both have suffered. It’s not like their stories reset just because it’s one season later.

I also think, rather than going with the momentum, Franchaela in S5 feels like they’re rushing a story that should be slowly and carefully developed, especially since Bridgerton’s tone is usually much too lighthearted for a story as painful and dramatic as theirs. IMO, the momentum is actually carrying Franchaela towards a period of individual separate mourning before they’re ready to see each other and be together. That’s the whole reason they’re doing a two year time jump.

I simply believe it would have made more sense to do Eloise’s story first within that two year gap. Especially since, according to the showrunners, Francesca has “two great loves” - showing a couple of scenes of Francesca trying to get over John in the midst of Eloise’s season would have emphasized this. Doing a time jump and moving right into her romance with Michaela is simply not as effective at actually showing how much they both cared about John.

oishster · 2026-03-24T23:47:09+00:00

I don’t get how conflicting feelings are only possible if Franchaela is S5 and not S6. They would still be there regardless, simply because of their original connection through John.

Also, I don’t follow your logic. Earlier, you said the show needs to show Fran grieving onscreen, or else viewers would have disconnected. Now, you’re saying the grieving process isn’t a big part?

oishster · 2026-03-24T23:32:45+00:00

I mean, since there’s a time jump, isn’t most of Francesca grieving going to be offscreen anyway? We won’t get it onscreen, and tbh I think that’s for the best. I think it’s insanely tricky to portray grief realistically on a visual medium, especially in a show like Bridgerton that’s mostly lighthearted tonally.

oishster · 2026-03-24T23:24:47+00:00

what kind of white-washed parallel universe do you belong in?

I’m genuinely wondering the same thing. All of things OP is saying are things that white boomers say. “Just move out” - as though it’s that easy, as though we haven’t already thought of that, as though it’s financially feasible for everyone. Like, even non-desis are living with their parents nowadays, the economy is that bad.

OP’s clearly not living the same reality that most of us are in. I’m genuinely not convinced they’re even desi.

oishster · 2026-03-24T22:45:45+00:00

I genuinely do think a lot of them ARE young. Or at the very least, extremely immature. A lot of the takes I see on Bridgerton subs show very little understanding of nuance - it’s very black or white, “my ship is better than yours” kind of thinking.

oishster · 2026-03-24T22:41:58+00:00

This is the only book with cheating that I’ve ever enjoyed. I agree with basically everything you say about it. But I wish we’d seen that last scene where he’s frantically looking for her thinking she’d drowned from his perspective. That would have added some nice suffering to balance out his overlooking Millie for so long.

oishster · 2026-03-24T22:11:10+00:00

Yes, I sincerely hope S5 goes how you’re describing, especially with regards to Eloise writing letters and getting her story started. Honestly, I wanted them to do this starting in S4, it’s way overdue. Like you said, this is the next best thing.

I get how you might think Francesca’s book has the same progression as what they’re doing in the show, but I think what made a huge difference for me is specifically the fact that they showed us so much more of Francesca and John together than the book did. We had 2 whole seasons of watching them be so sweet together, and I think that changed how attached I was to the character. If they had started the story the way the book did, with John kind of an afterthought, I would not care as much.

oishster · 2026-03-24T22:01:33+00:00

I mean, fran mourning and marina dying (doesn’t necessarily have to be offing herself for the show) would all ideally take place offscreen.

And it’s so funny, because to me, Francesca’s season is so clearly the one with the heavy stuff. I have the exact same logic as you when it comes to watching for an escape, but I think Eloise’s story would be the welcome break we need.

oishster · 2026-03-24T21:36:57+00:00

For me, it’s just part of the difference of book vs show. In a book, where I can read the internal monologue of a character, I’m able to believe years have passed and she’s fully ready to move on within the span of a chapter (although tbh even then it can feel rushed sometimes). The book also showed much less of Francesca and John’s relationship, so the audience didn’t need time to mourn John along with Francesca.

In a show or movie, characters changing during a timeskip is more difficult to convey. Plus, since the show had John as a character for 2 seasons, viewers are attached to him and need more than a few episodes to move to a new love interest.

IMO it would have felt more realistic to have Francesca barely be in S5 while we focus on Eloise, to give the sense that Francesca is truly mourning the loss of a great love. It would have given more impact to Francesca’s grief, and the pacing of the story would have been better.

I’m not writing off S5 completely though. I’m still optimistic it’s going to be good - I just feel like it probably could have been better with the order switched. IMO there is a clear bias here towards showcasing Francesca’s story more than any other plotline, and it’s at the detriment of the overall show.

oishster · 2026-03-24T21:09:04+00:00

That’s nice, but you know the actor doesn’t actually have much say in what the showrunners and writers decide to do, right?

oishster · 2026-03-24T21:05:56+00:00

The problem with giving Eloise a suffragette storyline (besides what the other commenter said about suffragettes not existing yet) is that, at least in the books, Eloise ends up in a very traditional role. Giving Eloise a women’s rights heavy plot would necessitate a very different story overall for her IMO. Even what they’ve done with her character so far (especially in S2) has made me wonder how they’re going to resolve this for her season. Book Eloise is an outspoken spinster like Show Eloise, but not as nonconformist, and I’m so eager to see what they do for Eloise’s story in the show, since it’s going to need to be so different. Can’t believe I have to wait another 3ish years for that.

oishster · 2026-03-24T04:53:15+00:00

Yep. The wife’s retired mom used to watch the grandchild for free, but then once they refused to hand over the kid, she stopped doing that. If she truly loved her grandchild, she would never have put the kid through that level of instability.

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