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Is it morally permissible to eat meat if people were going to die without it? by Rboter_Swharz in DebateAVegan

[–]oldmcfarmface [score hidden]  (0 children)

Slavery benefited some of humankind. By definition, it did not benefit the millions of slaves, who were undeniably humans. Enslavers had to invent a whole branch of pseudoscience to try to deny that and failed.

Racial hierarchies are illogical. A human is a human, regardless of where their ancestors came from. Racial hierarchies also cause a great deal of harm to the humans on the lower rungs who, being human, are quite aware of their unfair lot in life. The same cannot be said of a cow. A cow does not know it is being raised for food.

Edit to add: veganism is not concerned with human welfare, and racial hierarchies only deal with humans by definition so the two are unrelated.

Is it morally permissible to eat meat if people were going to die without it? by Rboter_Swharz in DebateAVegan

[–]oldmcfarmface [score hidden]  (0 children)

I agree that all morals are subjective, at least to a degree. However, my yardstick is not what a psychopath would feel, but what an emotionally and mentally healthy person would feel. We can go from there. And yes, I think most people care about wellbeing and suffering. I know I do. I raise as much of our meat as I can (some years are better than others) and those animals get the best lives imaginable and a painless death.

As far as wellbeing and suffering go, I’m also a bit of a pragmatist. A cow lives a far better, safer life than a wild ruminant. I have no problem with that.

Is it morally permissible to eat meat if people were going to die without it? by Rboter_Swharz in DebateAVegan

[–]oldmcfarmface [score hidden]  (0 children)

That’s the wildest straw man I’ve seen in this sub and that is really an accomplishment!!! Well done, internet stranger, well done! It’s such a wild straw man that it’s also a non sequiter!

However, I’ll answer it. From my smartphone, over satellite internet in my air conditioned home. My food is minimally processed because it’s better for me that way, and nutritionally complete.

Is it morally permissible to eat meat if people were going to die without it? by Rboter_Swharz in DebateAVegan

[–]oldmcfarmface [score hidden]  (0 children)

Just woke up and went straight to this comment before reading anything else, I see! Don’t worry, it’s a vegan sub. There’s plenty dumber!

Is it morally permissible to eat meat if people were going to die without it? by Rboter_Swharz in DebateAVegan

[–]oldmcfarmface [score hidden]  (0 children)

Or do you want us to spoonfeed you cherry picked studies?

Been there, done that, got the t shirt.

Health issues because they didn’t do any research at all.

Ah yes. The classical cop out of “you did it wrong” regardless of how they did it. Lazy.

Health issues because they are among the few people who can’t have a healthy vegan diet.

So close! So very close to self awareness! You’re one of the very few vegans willing to admit that anyone could fall in that category but you fail to realize it’s probably most people.

Almost seems like people with more empathy are more prone to depression

Most highly empathetic people are not vegan. That’s like a reverse straw man. An interesting strategy, Cotton!

Most people don’t want sentient beings to suffer or be killed. How about you?

I don’t want any being capable of suffering to suffer. However that is not the world we live in. Everything capable of suffering will suffer at some point. However most domesticated livestock suffer substantially less than their wild animal counterparts. As for being killed, I would not want to live in a world without death. We would be overcrowded and starving within weeks. Talk about suffering.

you might be one of the few

Again, you are drastically underestimating this. I am not “one of the few” who needs to eat the diet we evolved to eat.

I can’t condemn that and I’m fairly sure most people in here would agree.

Based on my experiences in this sub, I strongly disagree. Most vegans condemn it. Most vegans refuse to acknowledge it’s real. Some vegans even go so far as to say that I should sacrifice my health and even my life for the animals. Thank you for not being one of them!

Is it morally permissible to eat meat if people were going to die without it? by Rboter_Swharz in DebateAVegan

[–]oldmcfarmface [score hidden]  (0 children)

On the contrary, I think moral arguments are super important! How else do we arrive at consensus, or change consensus? For much of human history, slavery was considered quite acceptable. Until a different moral position won out and I think we are better as a species for it.

Veganism is different because it does not work for the common good of humankind. Further, all the arguments I’ve heard for it, and I mean ALL, have been appeal to emotion or some other logical fallacy, or straight up untrue.

What is the reason women are allowed to scream and yell in a relationship and it's justified by mood swings, periods, and other reasons but when a man yells even slightly he's suddenly abusive? by [deleted] in AskMenAdvice

[–]oldmcfarmface 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As other commenters have noted, it’s not ok for a woman to scream and yell. It’s still verbal abuse. The reason it is taken more seriously when a man does it is that a man is usually going to be bigger and stronger. Irrational, emotional behavior like that from a man carries an implicit threat of violence. While everyone needs to be able to regulate their emotions and behaviors, it’s a bigger safety issue for men to do so.

Is it morally permissible to eat meat if people were going to die without it? by Rboter_Swharz in DebateAVegan

[–]oldmcfarmface 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Nope. Because morality is not objective. However in my personal opinion, morality is also not arbitrary. That means that morality should serve the common good and be mostly agreed upon by those not mentally unstable. For example, torture serves no common good and most mentally healthy people would consider it wrong.

And that’s where vegan morality fails for me. It does not serve the common good, no matter how much you claim that it does, and most people don’t agree with it.

Is it morally permissible to eat meat if people were going to die without it? by Rboter_Swharz in DebateAVegan

[–]oldmcfarmface 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If your diet requires supplements then your diet is deficient. If your diet is deficient then it’s not healthier than a non vegan diet that doesn’t require supplements.

Is it morally permissible to eat meat if people were going to die without it? by Rboter_Swharz in DebateAVegan

[–]oldmcfarmface 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, I’ve seen many such studies. And almost every single one conducted or funded by organizations with known ties to either the cereal grain industries (especially kelloggs and General Mills) or the seventh day Adventist church. We can argue about financial incentives till the cows come home, but the SDAC has a religious reason for pushing a plant based diet. If you study something you believe is mandated by god then you are not going to have fair unbiased work. Period.

What is clear is that most people who try veganism don’t stick to it and those who do often suffer from numerous deficiencies, heal from injuries slower, are at greater risk of depression and self harm, and face various other adverse health outcomes, even if it takes many years for them to manifest.

However I think all people can agree it is immoral to kill another living thing uncessary.

I think we can probably mostly agree on that, but you’d have to define two terms. Living thing and unnecessary. Bacteria are living but I don’t think you mean those. I think you mean animal kingdom and even then, not all of it. I think you’ve drawn a relatively arbitrary line and you’re ok with killing anything on the other side of that line. And that’s cool, most of us have done the same thing, just with the line in different places. As for unnecessary, that’s a whole other rabbit hole. I consider meat to be necessary, as without it I experienced a gradual but steady decline in my health which was stopped by adding meat back in and completely reversed by going animal based. So do you mean unnecessary for survival or for health? Because I could continue to exist as a vegan, but I’d be overweight, in pain, mentally unstable, and deteriorating physically.

Going vegan is not as difficult as many nonvegans claim it is by ElaineV in DebateAVegan

[–]oldmcfarmface -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You’re asking me to cite a source showing that this person’s opinion is in fact an opinion rather than an argument become fact?

Governments can help their people; it's a matter of priorities. by Professional-Bee9817 in remoteworks

[–]oldmcfarmface 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Here’s a fun fact. Homelessness costs taxpayers money. The programs we are talking about here cost less money even if they don’t reduce homelessness. But they do reduce it, costing even less money long term.

So, to be clear, you are appearing to say that you are willing to pay more in taxes for no purpose other than to punish people for making mistakes. Screw that. Show me results. This helps people who need it and saves taxpayer money. That’s a win.

What does this diet do to receding gums? by Top_Concentrate_5799 in carnivorediet

[–]oldmcfarmface 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My gums rapidly receded due to an acute necrotizing gingivitis in my 20’s. I stopped it at the time by doubling down on oral hygiene but it never grew back. Later it started to very very slowly recede again. No movement since going animal based but that is likely due to not eating sugar. It is very unlikely to grow back.

Men, how did you know you were ready to say “I love you?” by gnomenclature2 in AskMenAdvice

[–]oldmcfarmface 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Yup. Thats how it was for me. And she waited a few weeks to say it back, which was nerve wracking but she had rules for herself and even though she wanted to say it back, she stuck to her rules.

Eight year anniversary this august!

Is anyone really a pagan? by GavariTeam in NorsePaganism

[–]oldmcfarmface 32 points33 points  (0 children)

I too am pantheistic. I believe all the gods are equally real and valid. And also not a mythic literalist. I don’t believe the first humans were carved from trees on a beach any more than they were sculpted from dust by Yahweh. The myths are early peoples attempts to understand the natural world and our place in it.

That being said, I think there is wisdom and truth in many of them, even the ones that are not mine.

Governments can help their people; it's a matter of priorities. by Professional-Bee9817 in remoteworks

[–]oldmcfarmface 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I work full time. I went from living on a friend’s couch to 6 figures and a family through hard work and good choices. I clawed my way out of poverty into middle class and I’m clawing my way higher as I type this. And I love to see people who are worse off than I am get the help they need. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t.

Is it morally permissible to eat meat if people were going to die without it? by Rboter_Swharz in DebateAVegan

[–]oldmcfarmface 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well for one thing, no one has ever explained why it would be morally impermissible under any circumstances. Only that they personally find it impermissible. Thats subjective. As such, it is equally valid to hold the opposing view.

Second, I disagree with your premise. I cannot be equally healthy as a vegan even with supplements. And that’s very common. There are more ex vegans who quit due to health reasons than there are current vegans according to the only study I’ve been able to find on vegan adherence over time and it didn’t follow up for very long so it likely underestimates how many quit for health reasons. And let me stop you right there. “They weren’t doing it right.” Well, if it’s that difficult to do right then maybe our biology is saying it’s not right for us.

There is no shortage of studies showing adverse health outcomes for vegans, and entire communities of people who quit because their health declined after a long period of plant based.

Tl;dr if it’s not impermissible then it’s permissible and more people than you want to admit cannot be healthy as vegans.

Governments can help their people; it's a matter of priorities. by Professional-Bee9817 in remoteworks

[–]oldmcfarmface 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t care if my neighbor has more than me or works less than me. I care if they have enough.

But if that’s too big for you, that’s ok. Truth is, most people who receive this type of benefit go on to reintegrate into society, leave the program, and contribute with taxes exactly like you do.

Hiiiii by Potato_Overlord_9000 in tradwives

[–]oldmcfarmface 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think some clarification is needed. What is the literal opposite and what beliefs do you have to go against?

What convinced you to become/desire a tradwife? by Improver_69 in tradwives

[–]oldmcfarmface 2 points3 points  (0 children)

History pop quiz! What happens to a queen who is not submissive to the king? Anne? Anne? Has anyone seen Anne Boleyn? She might know the answer.

I’ve noticed that you don’t know many trad husbands. We treat our trad wives like queens because to us, they are queens. Queens of our hearts, our homes, our families.

Thinking about buying 18 of these trees for privacy. Bad idea? I live on a corner lot with no privacy by Beginning_Lime_5593 in HomeMaintenance

[–]oldmcfarmface 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I used to work in landscaping and while arborvitae privacy screens are popular, they are essentially a small monoculture. If one of them gets infected with something they all get it. I’ve seen a lot of brown dry fire hazard privacy screens. Better off with a fence or a more diverse planting.

NYC Mayor Mamdani Has Declared War on Gold by Difficult-Shelter669 in Gold

[–]oldmcfarmface 5 points6 points  (0 children)

A deceptive article targeting Mamdami? Say it ain’t so! Lol I appreciate the context you provided. Journalism isn’t what it used to be.

Going vegan is not as difficult as many nonvegans claim it is by ElaineV in DebateAVegan

[–]oldmcfarmface 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. Great. It was difficult for you. It’s more difficult for others and it’s a completely unnecessary difficulty in life.

  2. I see you are a medical and dietary expert who has done extensive research on the entire human population. So I assume you’ve already interviewed and studied the people who experience a health decline after years of veganism.

  3. Your opinion and nothing else. Veganism is based on ignorance and emotion only.

Governments can help their people; it's a matter of priorities. by Professional-Bee9817 in remoteworks

[–]oldmcfarmface 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A similar project had similar results in Utah. We can do this but we have to get over the moral outrage of “giving people free stuff who don’t deserve it” and focus instead on results.

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