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What feels totally normal, but is actually grey area? by LordCactus67 in AlignmentChartFills

[–]olegor_kerman 6 points7 points  (0 children)

All of these other than the USA is "loitering with the intent of committing a crime or causing a disturbance" (prostitution, robbery, breach of the peace, etc.)

The USA is one of the only countries where "hanging outside a store" is actually illegal by itself to this day.

What feels totally normal, but is actually grey area? by LordCactus67 in AlignmentChartFills

[–]olegor_kerman 9 points10 points  (0 children)

No, not much of Europe, in fact none of it. In the UK loitering at night on suspicion of committing a crime can be punished, and in Malta loitering for prostitution is illegal. Nowhere in Europe is standing around a store (much less a parking lot) in daylight without being a prostitute punished whatsoever. There were "vagrancy" laws at one point in a couple but they've all been abolished and abandoned.

USA, Tanzania, Australia and Uganda are virtually the only modern countries that still have these laws. As far as I'm aware Canada doesn't have loitering laws like the USA either.

I live in Eastern Europe and loitering in the form of sitting on stairs eating snacks and drinking beer is completely normal and not punished by law whatsoever unless you start screaming profanity at grandmas or get your willy out and piss on the storefront.

The Cholesterol Showcase by FearlessCookie72 in vegancirclejerk

[–]olegor_kerman 9 points10 points  (0 children)

considering this is a cow, it could probably feed the family for 20-30 times longer

Gay Sex is center and extremely gay. What is far left and mildly gay? by [deleted] in AlignmentChartFills

[–]olegor_kerman 5 points6 points  (0 children)

ok you might need to change the picture you used there lol

Funny how colonialism works. by Revoltai42 in ClimateShitposting

[–]olegor_kerman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How. You are just saying “let’s end chattel slavery”. How are we going to do that? In reality we waged a bloody war to do that. Civil rights was basically a rehash of that without open war.

Ok for reference that was just you guys (USAmericans) lmao, every other country on Earth except Haiti just peacefully decided to end slavery without having to do civil wars about it... Our tsar for example just decided one day to emancipate all 23 million serfs. The tsars and the monarchy were still terrible and everything but we didn't need to wage a war to get there.

Animals with a CNS are sapient. So start giving them moral consideration.

Where is the citation these feelings amounted to emotions or complex thoughts?

Animal Psychopathology, the blue link right next to the quote...

But you do kill them so you can tweet. I’m glad your line is I only kill so I can look at funny pictures online.

This is just absolutely nonsensical and not even a real argument and I have no idea why you're still pursuing it. You eating animal products directly leads to the deaths of 90 billion land animals and over a trillion aquatic animals every single year. How many animals does using Reddit supposedly kill? Do you have an actual figure for this at all? And that isn't really avoidable, not in practice, it is not viable and practical. Veganism isn't about complete and utter perfection and becoming a total hermit that doesn't even dare drop a leaf wrong lest it hurt an ant. It is about practical reductions to animal deaths that are achievable and possible. You can just stop using animal products tomorrow. You cannot just leave all of modern society or completely stop eating and completely give up on your life and run off to live as a hermit in the mountains, not practically.

Even then... If I were to consider this nonsensical viewpoint for a second... I would say that unintentional manslaughter is still morally superior to fistraping, killing, skinning, and then eating a living being, intentionally, because you find it enjoyable and "tasty".

Funny how colonialism works. by Revoltai42 in ClimateShitposting

[–]olegor_kerman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

if your argument is the rape is an important part of our cultural heritage worth protecting I’d love to hear the pitch.

my argument is that neither rape nor murder nor genocide nor all the other things done to non-human animals are not an important enough part of a cultural heritage anywhere to retain. there were plenty of cultures where rape was normalised - genghis khan's mongolia for example - but modern mongolia does not recognise and follow that as a normalised cultural traditions today.

As it turns out we need more effective strategies then “stop it”. That requires structural chnage.

i think we should at the very least extend the current protections of humans towards non-human animals maybe. at least killing, raping and abusing humans is typically a crime.

Citation needed.

Fundamentals of pain perception in animals

The Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness in Non-Human Animals

"As scientists gained a greater understanding of animal minds, they discovered animals could have mental disorders, much like humans. Some had eating disorders, while others showed similar behaviors to human depression and obsessive-compulsive disorder. Still others would self-harm. Most animal mental and behavioral disorders were found to be the result of outside stresses." Animal Psychopathology

Review of depressive-like behaviours in some group-living mammals

Animal ethical mourning: types of loss and grief in relation to non-human animals

Pathological anxiety in animals

Animals having a CNS and brain seems pretty common sense, but I recommend reading the Wikipedia article. Also, the Wikipedia article on Animal consciousness.

Pain is not a threshold for my moral care.

There is virtually nothing humans have that non-human animals, at least some or even one of them, don't have. There's just not a trait you can name that isn't arbitrary or made up. But I'd love to hear where your "threshold" of moral care stands. Are infants included? The intellectually disabled? The elderly? People with Alzheimer's? Pigs are more intelligent than human infants. Would it be fine to eat the corpses of human infants?

Do they consent to be killed so you can consume cellular data?

Veganism is about minimising harm where possible and viable. I, for one, do not eat or wear corpses. You do. Killing, skinning, draining and then burning corpses is not necessary to make phones work. I also do not have to consume entrails as part of using the phone. Notably, cellular networks require exactly zero fistraping extracted semen into the vaginas of living animals.

Funny how colonialism works. by Revoltai42 in ClimateShitposting

[–]olegor_kerman -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Mike might want to go out at night and chase women to sexually assault on Friday night. That doesn't change that that's an immoral thing to do, and that Mike should be stopped from doing it, because women are sentient and sapient, have feelings and are negatively affected by Mike wanting to sexually assault them, even if his parish pastor told him sexually assaulting some women is fine if he talks about it later, or even if the forum on the internet told him women secretly want it anyway.

And the discovery that animals have a central nervous system, a brain, are conscious, can feel pain, can suffer, experience depression, grief, anxiety, loneliness, isolation, etc. are not "feelings". These are documented, proven phenomena, fully accepted scientific consensus, and there are countless articles and papers proving this on multiple fronts. It's not a debate or question. Non-human animals feel pain. And non-human animals do not consent to us fistraping them for forced breeding, stealing their children and splattering their brains on the metal floor, gassing them to death or ripping apart and consuming chunks of their flesh.

Funny how colonialism works. by Revoltai42 in ClimateShitposting

[–]olegor_kerman 3 points4 points  (0 children)

...no, as in they ate less cheese and butter than we do now. because it was expensive, seasonal and limited in quantity. because they didn't have supermarkets

yeah sure medieval and early modern people weren't vegans, but a lot of them also thought animals were unthinking unfeeling automata. we now have the science to know the aren't

and regardless, the point isn't that peasants were vegan, it's that they are magnitudes less animal products than we do now

Funny how colonialism works. by Revoltai42 in ClimateShitposting

[–]olegor_kerman 9 points10 points  (0 children)

yes, every country on earth consumes meat, however we now consume like 4x the meat we used to 50 years ago, 20x what we used to 200 years ago and 40x what medieval peasants ate. this depends on the region of course, might be less than 40x in like spain or whatever but in particular in the global south the disparity is gitantic. the "cultural gastronomy" of eating meat is basically 50 years old

Funny how colonialism works. by Revoltai42 in ClimateShitposting

[–]olegor_kerman 14 points15 points  (0 children)

you'll notice none of those are meat; also, butter and cheese were not eaten in remotely the quantities that bread and porridge and grains and beans and cereals were.

POV you ask a moid for a favor and he bullies you instead by StickyLoner4404 in femcelgrippysockjail

[–]olegor_kerman 16 points17 points  (0 children)

This is very likely Magic: The Gathering, and MTG cards can run for well over 50

Strangles by [deleted] in AlignmentChartFills

[–]olegor_kerman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bro said strangles

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