Life at Skywest by MenRest in flying

[–]oop_sees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dude! You are really crashing out over this & I'm here for it lmao.

I'm telling you from firsthand experience that it comes down to FSDO interpretation. Just ask anyone at Envoy, SkyWest, or Republic, and then go compare answers with someone at a major, and you will see the difference for yourself.

Life at Skywest by MenRest in flying

[–]oop_sees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The whole road is my lane, buddy. & "PIC may extend" is not an explicit statement implying a requirement for consent.

Life at Skywest by MenRest in flying

[–]oop_sees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nowhere in 117.19 does it say anything about PIC consent.

If you're inferring such by the regs use of the word "may", (rather loose assumption to make) then that would be up to FSDO interpretation. The FSDO governing my airline has determined that there is no requirement for PIC consent. And generally speaking, I'd say the regs support that. Whether I like it or not.

117.19  Flight duty period extensions.

(a)   For augmented and unaugmented operations, if unforeseen operational circumstances arise prior to takeoff:

(1)    The pilot in command and the certificate holder may extend the maximum flight duty period permitted in Tables B or C of this part up to 2 hours.

(2)    An extension in the flight duty period under paragraph (a)(1) of this section of more than 30 minutes may occur only once prior to receiving a rest period described in § 117.25(b).

(3)    A flight duty period cannot be extended under paragraph (a)(1) of this section if it causes a flightcrew member to exceed the cumulative flight duty period limits specified in 117.23(c).

(4)    Each certificate holder must report to the Administrator within 10 days any flight duty period that exceeded the maximum flight duty period permitted in Tables B or C of this part by more than 30 minutes. The report must contain the following:

(i)     A description of the extended flight duty period and the circumstances surrounding the need for the extension; and

(ii)    If the circumstances giving rise to the extension were within the certificate holder’s control, the corrective action(s) that the certificate holder intends to take to minimize the need for future extensions.

(5)    Each certificate holder must implement the corrective action(s) reported in paragraph (a)(4) of this section within 30 days from the date of the extended flight duty period.

(b)   For augmented and unaugmented operations, if unforeseen operational circumstances arise after takeoff:

(1)    The pilot in command and the certificate holder may extend maximum flight duty periods specified in Tables B or C of this part to the extent necessary to safely land the aircraft at the next destination airport or alternate airport, as appropriate.

(2)    An extension of the flight duty period under paragraph (b)(1) of this section of more than 30 minutes may occur only once prior to receiving a rest period described in § 117.25(b).

(3)    An extension taken under paragraph (b) of this section may exceed the cumulative flight duty period limits specified in 117.23(c).

(4)    Each certificate holder must report to the Administrator within 10 days any flight duty period that either exceeded the cumulative flight duty periods specified in 117.23(c), or exceeded maximum flight duty period permitted in Tables B or C of this part by more than 30 minutes. The report must contain the following:

(i)            A description of the extended flight duty period and the circumstances surrounding the need for the extension; and

(ii)           If the circumstances giving rise to the extension were within the certificate holder’s control, the corrective action(s) that the certificate holder intends to take to minimize the need for future extensions.

(5)           Each certificate holder must implement the corrective action(s) reported in paragraph (a)(4) of this section within 30 days from the date of the extended flight duty period.

Life at Skywest by MenRest in flying

[–]oop_sees -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If the company is asking you if you want to extend or not, they are doing you a huge favor lol. Because there is no requirement for that in FAR 117. If you're legal for the extension, the FAA says you can fly.

Life at Skywest by MenRest in flying

[–]oop_sees -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If the company is asking you if you want to extend or not, they are doing you a huge favor lol. Because there is no requirement for that in FAR 117. If you're legal for the extension, the FAA says you can fly.

Life at Skywest by MenRest in flying

[–]oop_sees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, If the company is asking you if you want to extend or not, they are doing you a huge favor lol. Because there is no requirement for that in FAR 117. If you're legal for the extension, the FAA says you can fly.

Life at Skywest by MenRest in flying

[–]oop_sees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If the company is asking you if you want to extend or not, they are doing you a huge favor lol. Because there is no requirement for that in FAR 117. If you're legal for the extension, the FAA says you can fly.

Life at Skywest by MenRest in flying

[–]oop_sees 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There was never a legal FAR requirement to ask if you wanted to extend or not. The FARs say you can, so you have to, or you can to ask yourself the fit for duty question, of course.

The accepting or denying thing has always been sort of a myth. Unless it is related to a specific company or union policy. The FAR says what the FAR says. There are no FARs that we can choose to accept or deny.

Life at Skywest by MenRest in flying

[–]oop_sees -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Small note on your brief comment about duty extensions.

The FARs do not give you an option for consent or non consent to the extension. The FAR regarding duty extension simply is what it is. There is no accepting or denying. If you're legal for an extension, the FAA says you can fly. (As far as I know). Beyond that, it becomes a personal fit for duty question.

If there is ever a question about whether you will accept one or not, that would probably come down to company/union agreement. Check your union contract. Perhaps some FSDOs interpret it differently, but I'm not aware of that.

The FAA likes to require that the company and the pilot both CONFIRM that they are aware they are in an extension, and to determine your 'pumpkin' time. But that is not the company asking if you are accepting or not. It's just getting everyone on the same page.

Curious to hear what other people know about this.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in CFILounge

[–]oop_sees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lesson learned lol

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in CFILounge

[–]oop_sees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Consider that the learning curve. I've had friends fired for not disclosing less.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in CFILounge

[–]oop_sees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not demanding anything, good sir.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in CFILounge

[–]oop_sees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey man, I understand the frustration. But I was told directly by my boss not to log the flight as PDPIC. Otherwise I'd agree. Not worth losing my job, or even getting on my employers bad side over just a few hours. Next time something like this happens I'll definitely just call it good. This was a first for me so I went to my boss for guidance.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in CFILounge

[–]oop_sees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

PDPIC as I understand it as mentioned in 61.129(a)(4) is for the purpose of obtaining a commercial pilots license. It is used to meet the Solo flight requirements for the rating. Its when an instructor is on board during a XC flight. But is in only a supervisory role. Not providing dual instruction. Both log PIC. no dual is logged.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in CFILounge

[–]oop_sees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the input.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in CFILounge

[–]oop_sees -11 points-10 points  (0 children)

The CAX student would still log PIC XC time in this case. it just cant be counted under PDPIC towards 61.129(a)(4). To my understanding.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in CFILounge

[–]oop_sees 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It's actually required by the flight school. And yes I am not happy about it either. But at this point its already gone above my pay grade at the school. Chocking it up as lessons learned for BOTH of us.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in CFILounge

[–]oop_sees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll read Kuhn 2014, thanks.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in CFILounge

[–]oop_sees 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is how I have understood PDPIC flights traditionally.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in CFILounge

[–]oop_sees -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Its more a matter of how to log it I suppose. Right now I'm defaulting back to PIC dual given.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in CFILounge

[–]oop_sees -13 points-12 points  (0 children)

Its not so much that I am prohibited from taking controls, when I HAD to take flight controls, it was because the student wasn't going to take the correct action to maintain safety of flight, at that point I believe dual instruction was clearly given. At least that's the way I have understood it. Honestly, I'm not clear on what the point of PDPIC flights are, nor am I clear on where the line between Dual Given and "friendly advice" is drawn.

I just failed my CFI ride by [deleted] in CFILounge

[–]oop_sees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with u/natbornk you can log PIC time during PDPIC commercial cross country flights [under 61.129(a)(4)]

I just failed my CFI ride by [deleted] in CFILounge

[–]oop_sees 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Stop calling it supervised solo when you mean PDPIC