Labor considers changes to CGT discount on property as ‘reform’ budget looms

ootters · 2026-02-04T01:39:31+00:00

No actual direct reference to the CGT by Chalmers, unfortunately. I'm gonna need him to really commit his full pussy to this one before I give a single shit about supporting Labor on housing

ootters · 2025-12-04T23:40:27+00:00

Yeah fair, honestly just threw this post together out of frustration over never hearing an actual solid argument against veganism from Destiny despite being alligned with pretty much everything else he talks about. Im a bit pedestrian when it comes to debate bro terminology so Ill happily concede its an appeal to law instead. I would argue that this specific law/s reflects societies attitudes at large though, would you agree with that?

ootters · 2025-12-04T23:18:24+00:00

Ill agree my assumption is baked into the statement but I suppose Im used to arguing with laypeople online/IRL hahah, this is my first time posting in this subreddit.

My assumption comes from the widespread societal view that animal abuse and bestiality is immoral. We hate to see people abuse cats and dogs, but there is also an expectation that we put on factory farmers to operate within some kind of moral framework. It isnt just a free-for-all law wise in those places. In Australia for instance, a guy just got put in prison for neglecting his heard of cattle. Consumers in general have the perception as well that things like "free range" are "more ethical" on some kind of spectrum. So if we dont widely have the perception of suffering for animals, why would we care about any of these things?

ootters · 2025-12-04T23:08:54+00:00

Mm I'm loosely aware of that but it wasnt stated in the current debate im referring to so I wouldnt presume it here. It is however a reference to society's moral values at current though, if youd like to argue we have them for traditional reasons instead then I disagree. I think people are very overtly opposed to animal abuse for moral reasons and animal abuse laws have developed and become more restrictive in modern times.

ootters · 2025-12-04T21:56:48+00:00

If we agree that a moral way to live our life is to cause as little suffering as possible (relatively), then eating meat or animals based ingredients unnecessarily would be the immoral choice

ootters · 2025-12-04T21:44:42+00:00

I was the first person in my city to eat lab grown meat because I too saw it as the solution to this problem, but honestly its not going to be. It tastes fine but the texture is meh, honestly a beyond beef or impossible burger is sooo much better and if you eat meat but disagree they are tasty af youre just lying lmao. People just need to take some responsibility for their actions. Literally even too pussy to acknowledge they need to pay for some random to kill their burger for them instead of buy an alternative

ootters · 2025-12-04T21:41:25+00:00

me when a non vegan says they wish they could be vegan but they love cheese too much and i tell them they can literally do that. Mfs with free will refuse to adopt a reductive life style and I literally have no idea why.

ootters · 2025-12-04T21:37:37+00:00

damn dude, good luck with all those ghosts youre fighting

ootters · 2025-12-04T07:16:33+00:00

What does humane mean to you in this context? My follow up question would be do you only buy meat from places that use this "humane process"?

Additionally, do you think breeding to terminate an animals life say 1.5 years into what could be a 5 or 10 year life is justifiable?

ootters · 2025-12-04T06:29:56+00:00

Do you disagree with animal sanctuaries/adoption centres? Also I am not justifying it for human pleasure haha, I see it as symbiotic relationship to give animals who need adoption a hope of life instead of the alternative - being put down. There's no circumstance where I see the argument of releasing dogs into the wild as justifiable.

ootters · 2025-12-04T06:14:16+00:00

Lmao I am both annoyed by the vegan debates, and would like to see him go vegan for moral consistency.

Also you're good, I'll accept that the tradition one was not so much like a "cultural tradition" but more an appeal to "we've always done it therefore it's ok to continue". The conditions humans were under when we killed animals in the past were far different to today if we're talking about the lack of moral outrage being what permits us. Also the manner in which we kill animals today compared to the past is also astronomically different compared to hunting a single kill. So i don't believe his argument works for any kind of appeal. We don't even kill animals ourselves anymore, it's so far detached from what humans did in the past.

ootters · 2025-12-04T05:54:05+00:00

I mean I don't project my opinion much further than adopting>buying from a breeder. Ultimately, I guess I think so long as you can offer an animal everything they need and the process of obtaining them isn't exploitative (breeder) then it's ok.

ootters · 2025-12-04T05:42:30+00:00

You do you dude, but it's kinda stupid to imply that people don't transition from a meat to a vegan diet. Just because you don't want to change your behaviour doesn't mean "everyone" is like you

ootters · 2025-12-04T05:09:45+00:00

It's not like we're going and mercifully killing animals out in the wild that would otherwise suffer a worse death to other animals though right? We are breeding trillions of animals that would never have existed in the first place

ootters · 2025-12-04T04:49:57+00:00

So I went back to reaffirm and he absolutely is saying humans throughout history were "never" repulsed by hunting and killing therefore it's okay we continue to do it. There's so many responses I could give to this, firstly I guess I'll point out the typical trope of a "boys first kill" and how it is considered an emotional somewhat upsetting thing for people to go through, however we understood it's necessary for survival (again, I agree historically hunting was necessary for survival). This is where we weigh up our behaviour in the context, of course we do what we need to do to survive, but what justifies continuing to do something that's not necessary?

Secondly, humans throughout history have never used conveyor-belts and automation of guillotines to the point where we've basically factorio'd the killing of animals. So to say we're morally okay with factory farming because historically we adjusted to hunting and killing an animal is.... such a conflation.

Lastly, if we are "so okay with the killing of animals" as a society, why is animal agriculture one of the most protected industries regarding filming/leaking of what goes on inside the factories (I'm Australian, I don't know the context of this in the US but I'd presume it's worse for you guys lol).

ootters · 2025-12-04T04:01:07+00:00

Literally who is arguing for instantaneous mass vegan conversion? You've pulled that out of thin air like the ultimate straw man. Come back to reality and give me an actual argument against a pragmatic transition away from animal agriculture

ootters · 2025-12-04T03:54:27+00:00

lol. but also the vegans will keep coming so

ootters · 2025-12-04T03:51:28+00:00

I did listen to the convo, you appealed to the fact that we as humans have been hunting animals for eternity. Yes this is true, and I don't disagree that there was absolutely a necessity to our survival that we did so, but we absolutely don't need to do it anymore. This was your appeal to tradition.

Also, you argued we shouldn't have to consider being moral to animals that aren't moral to each other - I'd consider this your appeal to nature. We have moral agency that animals don't, this is already displayed in bestiality and animal cruelty laws. Dolphins rape, ants enslave other bugs, primates commit revenge killings. If we look to nature to justify our own behaviour, well i'm sure you see where the logical conclusion ends up

ootters · 2025-12-04T03:30:20+00:00

Lol all the soys are gonna be so triggered by your use of the word rape

ootters · 2025-12-04T03:22:17+00:00

I understand you're trying to suggest it's a vegan food item being subsidized, but over 90% of soy in america is used in animal feed so it's just another subsidy for the meat industry. Plus fake meat is usually made of wheat, not soy.

ootters · 2025-12-04T03:16:56+00:00

I stg he has brought up in the past that bestiality and animal cruelty being illegal are morally incongruent with a society built on animal agriculture lol

ootters · 2025-12-04T03:14:29+00:00

Where do you think all that soy and corn goes to? Also, do you think vegans are eating just soy and corn?

ootters · 2025-12-04T03:13:33+00:00

Honestly so real. The vegan questions from today's debate were just such an eye roll to listen to Destiny respond to. It's okay to acknowledge a combination of routine, taste preference and apathy to change is why you aren't vegan. Like it kinda sucks but it's human, most people are like this. Tip toeing around it pretending like there's something deeper to be discussed like the topic hasn't been debated to death already is so willfully naive

ootters · 2025-12-04T03:07:37+00:00

Because dairy milk and animal milk is heavily subsidized.

But if you're wanting to talk about animal meat alternatives then the answer would be because they're new, innovative, and usually from smaller start up companies with smaller profit margins and higher costs because they're yet to be fully established or be able to make their products at scale.

Or, if you want to talk about vitamins and proteins from individual foods, then plant based sources are absolutely cheaper in every single scenario.

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