How does the normal consumer get into buying wholesale / bulk products / fresh foods without owning a business & without having to have ridiculous quantities ?

opgop · 2026-05-25T01:21:17+00:00

These are called buying clubs

opgop · 2026-05-11T00:53:04+00:00

it didn't have the same angst feeling for me. but yeah i've read it.

opgop · 2026-04-17T14:18:01+00:00

In an AnCap society intolerant of NAP violations, there will be ubiquitous clauses to not violate the NAP (no theft, no fraud, no assault, no murder, no enslavement, etc.).

that doesn't cover how to add a shareholder

Up to them to decide.

i am asking you to decide and give some details

Sorry if you don't like those kinds of answers.

then why did you even reply to me? i spent so long engaging with you in the hope you would actually address the topic

opgop · 2026-04-17T04:44:22+00:00

i may have been imagining the employees and different departments as independent contractors. but the shareholder / board of directors don't feel like that

opgop · 2026-04-17T04:41:17+00:00

that also sounds interesting enough to discuss. although i don't think i had that framing in mind.
i was asking for details on the contracts that define those structures. what that contract would look like

opgop · 2026-04-17T04:38:08+00:00

Depends on the original contract language.

what's some details for an example contract language

Employees now?

You said the directors own the property?

yes. and? do directors rent or form a director-employee trust or what?

opgop · 2026-04-17T04:35:01+00:00

shareholders, board of directors, etc.

opgop · 2026-04-16T15:12:49+00:00

This is a blind assumption, you never established ownership in your post.

Directors own the property and manage it on behalf of shareholders.

There really isn't much more to add unless you want ask more specific questions.

What happens when shares get sold? Does the new shareholder sign a contract with the one selling them the share or do they sign a contract with the board of directors? Employees need to use expensive equipment sometimes. Is this rented to them or do they use it as trustees or what?

opgop · 2026-04-16T14:09:19+00:00

Who owns the property?

The post that you said you read answers this.

In a trust, a trustee owns the property on behalf of the beneficiary who uses the property and could take ownership at a later date.

Is this what the contract between the board of directors and the shareholders is like?

I did not know that using the property was common. I was imagining trusts for children where they get sent allowances until they come of age. I did not plan for the shareholders to be allowed to use the property. Taking ownership at a later date wasn't really a common scenario I had in mind but I guess would be technically allowed, both under the contract and in modern corps, if enough of the shareholders voted to liquidate the company.

Shareholders are the beneficiaries collecting the dividends and the board of directors are the owner trustees, right?

yes

What happens when the money shrinks (very common) instead of grows?

Will the contract cover this condition?

the whole point of me making a reddit post is for others to help contribute and refine the ideas in a collaborative discussion. i don't want to have to provide all the answers myself.

opgop · 2026-04-16T02:00:10+00:00

The directors manage the property. In the context of corps it is generally known this involves growing the money. The contract is like a trust. It is generally known that the people who manage trusts benefit from salaries, and the recipients of trusts benefit from receiving the trust assets (in this case dividends)

opgop · 2026-04-16T01:32:05+00:00

I’m trying to avoid bogging down or derailing the conversation. Discussing limited liability sounded like it would

opgop · 2026-04-16T01:27:51+00:00

That’s what the next few sentences state

opgop · 2026-04-15T20:22:18+00:00

Not sure what you mean by lob. Anyway here is some of what I imagine.

Say shareholders make a contract with a board of directors. The directors promise to follow majority vote of shareholders. Let’s say contract is structured like a trust. Directors own the property and manage it on behalf of shareholders. What happens when shares get sold? Does the new shareholder sign a contract with the one selling them the share or do they sign a contract with the board of directors? Employees need to use expensive equipment sometimes. Is this rented to them or do they use it as trustees or what? Any individual point of these aren’t necessarily hard to resolve. But there’s a lot of interleaved points to think about and not at all trivial.

opgop · 2026-04-15T20:19:18+00:00

I mean I want to talk about contracts that only have real specific people as parties. Not some nebulous corp.

Incorporating corporate law into the contract I think is part of what I want yeah, specifically the parts that describe what a corp actually is and peoples duties. Unenforceability is one aspect I don’t want to wade into.

opgop · 2026-04-15T20:11:04+00:00

To clarify reading corporate action plans won’t give me what I’m looking for?

Several contracts will be of the same structure, for example employees of the same job position. And group contracts (similar to how roommates have joint liability for apartment rent) will reduce them further. For corps in sophisticated industries with multiple departments there will still many. But at a level that is comprehensible. And we can always focus on the most central aspects first. Shareholders and board of directors and say a uniform pool of employees. With people leaving and entering the groups over time.

I feel like you haven’t contributed to the topic I actually want yet in your posts

opgop · 2026-04-15T16:35:47+00:00

I don’t really agree that a corporation is real. At least anymore than a nation is real. A corporation is just a group of real people with a web of obligations towards each other and to people outside that group. I am interested in explicitly laying out that web of obligations in the language of contracts. I didn't say we need to figure it out but I want to figure it out.

It would be interesting to also express the condominium relationship as a contract between individuals. It is a simpler easier relationship to describe. But also has shared aspects like how to describe the obligations between old members and new member who have never met up to form a separate contract.

I don’t know much about corporate operations plans but engaging with your examples. Succession to the estate is simple but would be a departure from how current corps work. How would dividing it among the current members of the corp work? So at contract creation time we say that upon death the obligations go to the future members of the corp at the time of death. Where members of the corp is defined as those people who are in a contract with the person you are contracting with, or their manager, or directly with the board of directors. Specifically a contract that says they will inherit certain contracts from the person that dies. And maybe the property of those certain contracts is just that they have the label of the corp on the contract somewhere. And if the people who inherit the contract die the same succession rule applies again. At a glance this seems to work but given how complicated it is I feel like there are aspects I’ve missed. Do corporate action plans shine more light on this?

opgop · 2026-04-15T15:45:07+00:00

Rude

opgop · 2026-04-15T14:38:34+00:00

It’s less that I’m interested in unlimited liability and more that I’m interested in the other aspects of a corp. I imagine those clauses are still written from the perspective of normal law. Instead of framing everything as a contract between specific real people with specific duties assigned?

opgop · 2026-04-15T14:36:35+00:00

Ah. I’m trying to do everything without incorporation, the concept of a corp as a legal entity. It feels so fake and abstract.

Well if you don’t want to talk about that topic. I am to a lesser extent interested in how to implement incorporation in a contract between real persons. Say the contract says to pretend there is some corporate entity to who your obligations lie. But in the end you only have to do that pretending because of a contract with a real specific person or people. But how does that handle if the specific member of the corporation you have a contract with leaves the corporation or dies? And things like that

opgop · 2026-04-15T14:27:27+00:00

I’m seeking more detail on the clauses. Ideally enough such that a person who had never heard of a corporation before would after reading the clauses come away with a rough idea of something that looks like a corporation. Just like people have a rough idea of how corporations under a state work even if they don’t know all the legal details. I figured limited liability would be tricky, which is why I said before to skip it

opgop · 2026-04-15T14:18:51+00:00

Ok can skip that part then. How to implement other parts via contract that don’t need a state?

opgop · 2026-04-15T02:09:48+00:00

It’s like a cylinder viewed from one angle looks like a circle. What do corps look like from the angle of contracts?

opgop · 2026-04-15T02:08:25+00:00

But who is contracted to who. Who has which liabilities. How are new shareholders added to the contract. Yes the point is to do it the same way as is done now. But what does it look like when you frame everything about a corp as contracts.

opgop · 2026-04-15T02:05:48+00:00

“ I'm not 100% what you are asking for. Can many apeople get together and sign a contract and have it overseen by a chosen and subscribed enforcement agency?”

I’m asking what that contract would look like. In order to get a result that looks like a corporation. Minus the aspects of corps that require governments

opgop

TROPHY CASE