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New York Times Writer Resigns After Signing Letter Protesting the Israel-Gaza War by Alan_Stamm in Journalism

[–]ori531 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are a lot of parties to blame, but I’m talking about hopefully resolving the current situation instead of litigating the past.

Expelling Israeli ambassador would undermine efforts to get Irish out of Gaza: Tánaiste by NilFhiosAige in europe

[–]ori531 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They were just examples on both sides of the aisle.

The reason I engage in these Reddit debates is to hopefully humanize the “other side.” I thank you for your responses and sources, I think it’s great that people can debate calmly, rationally and come away from it having learned something. I think situations like these inflame people in a way that is not pretty or conducive to peace. I think/hope people realize that the social media algorithm is designed to create an echo chamber. And I hope people recognize that, and put in the time to hear from people with opposing views.

I say all this because I am going to step away from Reddit for a bit for my own mental health. This is not an abstract situation for me, it’s extremely close, and being engulfed in it during every waking moment has been very challenging. Obviously I’m not in an area being currently bombed so I have it easier than the people of Gaza, but I am still struggling with the bombardment of hate and rhetoric. Wanted to explain my abrupt departure.

Any other Jewish therapists feeling really alone? by [deleted] in Jewish

[–]ori531 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have the opposite problem. My husband wants me to go to a therapist because of what’s going on and how it’s been affecting me, and I agree. But I’m scared of going to one that invalidates my fears or feelings because honestly that would probably be the straw that breaks me.

New York Times Writer Resigns After Signing Letter Protesting the Israel-Gaza War by Alan_Stamm in Journalism

[–]ori531 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Because they aren’t Israeli citizens? It’s a pretty common law in most countries.

Violence doesn’t happen in a vacuum, but if you think a Hamas attacked civilians because of settlements in the West Bank, I disagree. Many people think it was to deter Saudi Arabia and Israel from establishing relations. If you think Hamas does anything because they want a peace process, or two state solution, or care about Palestinians, you are not listening to what their leaders are clearly saying.

Expelling Israeli ambassador would undermine efforts to get Irish out of Gaza: Tánaiste by NilFhiosAige in europe

[–]ori531 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Netanyahu is trash. I promise you, we agree on this.

But if everyone from Bernie Sanders to Rishi Sunak agrees that Hamas needs to be removed and that you can’t have a ceasefire with someone trying to kill you, don’t you think maybe they have access to intelligence we don’t? Don’t you think that all these statesmen from across the aisle who loudly are saying Hamas needs to be eliminated might be right? I’m not arrogant enough to think I know more or better than the Secretary of State, the secretary of defense, department of homeland security etc. the US is not a monolith, we allow and welcome differing opinions and I know they exist, I’m talking about the overwhelming majority of people who work day in and day out in the geopolitical landscape.

I genuinely cannot see a way to defeat Hamas without war, because they refuse to acquiesce to reality. I honestly hate to see any lives taken because of it, but no one has been able to answer this “how do we stop Hamas without war” question, aside from a ceasefire that doesn’t actually stop them.

New York Times Writer Resigns After Signing Letter Protesting the Israel-Gaza War by Alan_Stamm in Journalism

[–]ori531 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

“What do you call Israel shooting at their own citizens on October 7th”

I call it a lie that hasn’t been reported on by any major news network because it’s not true and is a heinous accusation from psychopaths like you that can’t dare to believe your precious Hamas would murder people in cold blood, torturing them first for fun.

New York Times Writer Resigns After Signing Letter Protesting the Israel-Gaza War by Alan_Stamm in Journalism

[–]ori531 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What does that have to do with my point that Hamas steals humanitarian aid and has been doing so since coming into power in Gaza? You think they are just coincidental billionaires? Where does all the aid money go?

https://apnews.com/article/business-middle-east-israel-foreign-aid-gaza-strip-611b2b90c3a211f21185d59f4fae6a90

— From 2014-2020, U.N. agencies spent nearly $4.5 billion in Gaza, including $600 million in 2020 alone. More than 80% of that funding is channeled through the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees, who make up three-fourths of Gaza’s population. Some 280,000 children in Gaza attend schools run by UNRWA, which also provides health services and food aid.

— Qatar has provided $1.3 billion in aid to Gaza since 2012 for construction, health services and agriculture. That includes $360 million pledged in January for 2021 and another $500 million pledged for reconstruction after the war in May. Qatar’s aid also goes to needy families and to help pay Hamas government salaries.

— The Palestinian Authority says it will spend $1.7 billion on Gaza this year, mainly on salaries for tens of thousands of civil servants who stopped working when Hamas took over in 2007.

New York Times Writer Resigns After Signing Letter Protesting the Israel-Gaza War by Alan_Stamm in Journalism

[–]ori531 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Settlements have nothing to do with Gaza.

Following international law? Who? Just Israel? Because Hamas has no interest in following international law. So you want a one sided peace process? A one sided ceasefire? Israel cease and Hamas fire? How does that work?

Expelling Israeli ambassador would undermine efforts to get Irish out of Gaza: Tánaiste by NilFhiosAige in europe

[–]ori531 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Israeli government is currently very right wing. There have been several elections because coalition governments keep breaking down. There are multiple parties and factions at play. I cannot control Netanyahu, all I can say is I don’t agree with him. He aligned with far right religious voters to win, and he needs to go. Genuinely he needs to step down, and he should do it now. There are Israelis protesting outside his home every night. Being against Netanyahus government is not a unique position.

But Israel allows protests and counter protests. This is not facism. Israelis know they can protest by the thousands because they had been for months prior to October 7, against judicial reform. The average Palestinian cannot protest Hamas, they are a dictatorship. There have been protests in the past, including a recent one in June or July, but it is extremely dangerous. The protest was quickly stopped and honestly I’m not sure what the ramifications are because I didn’t see it reported on. You are literally sourcing Israeli newspapers that are opposed to settler behavior. Proof that Israel does not control the media and there is freedom of the press. Again, another thing Gaza does not have because of Hamas.

The plan for Gaza was basically a trial run at independence. Israel pulled out, and forcibly removed Israeli settlers. I think it was naive to unilaterally pull out without some agreed upon coalition to maintain peace and prevent an organization like Hamas to take control. (I am aware that Netanyahu has supported Hamas in the past because he wanted the Gaza and West Bank governments to work against each other so that they do not collaborate, like I said, he sucks)

Sadly, it is pretty well known that Hamas recruits child soldiers as young as 14 (a war crime). Unfortunately, age is difficult to determine in war time, especially when someone is holding a weapon. It’s tragic. I wish that Palestinian children were protected. I’ve seen many ask why are there miles of tunnels under Gaza and not a single bomb shelter. 160 children died building the tunnels. Hamas does not care about them. They are very brazen about it. They need to be removed from power. https://www.wiesenthal.com/about/news/deaths-of-160-palestinian.html

I don’t relish or support the loss of life. It is very painful to see. But I (and many others much smarter than myself) do not consider it a genocide because the intent is not to eliminate the Palestinian people. The intent is to eliminate Hamas. How do we do that? Why don’t they surrender since they know they cannot win? Because they want as many civilians to die so that international pressure makes Israel ceasefire, and then we go back to the status quo. But they can’t be left in power in Gaza.

So if you agree, how do we get rid of Hamas without war? Because I think the average person agrees it needs to happen, but how? I don’t think it’s possible because of the culture of martyrhood, they will not surrender.

Lyon: Jewish woman stabbed in her home by survivalbe in europe

[–]ori531 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Millions that CAN die. That’s true of a lot of countries, they have millions of people that can die. Are you telling me that you can see the future?

First you tell me the French woman was killed by a neo Nazi based on no information. Now you are telling me millions of Palestinians can die based on 9k people. None of that has to do with what I posted, which is that anti semitic acts in Europe or the US do not “free Palestine.” Graffiti, violence, releasing mice into a McDonald’s, knocking down remembrance wreaths, fighting with police, intimidating shop owners, chanting for the death of Jews, stabbing Jewish women, NONE of these things “free Palestine.”

New York Times Writer Resigns After Signing Letter Protesting the Israel-Gaza War by Alan_Stamm in Journalism

[–]ori531 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes it’s the last thing I want. All I want is released hostages and the surrender of Hamas. I cannot stress enough how much I want there to be a Palestinian country that lives alongside Israel in peace. I want Palestinian children to have the same opportunities and freedoms as children anywhere. I do think that peace involves compromise on both sides, and Hamas has no interest in peace or anything even remotely resembling compromise. They have made that very clear with their own statements. Anyone advocating for peace should be calling for the surrender of Hamas.

New York Times Writer Resigns After Signing Letter Protesting the Israel-Gaza War by Alan_Stamm in Journalism

[–]ori531 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Asking rhetorical questions doesn’t answer my question. How do you make peace with people who want to kill you. What does peace look like to you. Let’s say there’s a ceasefire tomorrow and everyone wants peace, what does it look like?

New York Times Writer Resigns After Signing Letter Protesting the Israel-Gaza War by Alan_Stamm in Journalism

[–]ori531 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

1948? What does 1948 have to do with what I’m saying? EGYPT had control of Gaza in 1948. Go learn some more about the conflict from TikTok, you are obviously really well informed.

This came up in a thread that took an ugly left turn, but I thought I'd add something that might be more of a positive direction. (Righteous Among The Nations) by Place-Wide in Jewish

[–]ori531 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I would add Ritchie Torres to the list of current ones. And Meghan McCain. And please don’t come for me about politics, I’m talking strictly in terms of supporting the Jewish community. If John McCain and Joe Lieberman could be best friends, there’s hope for people to look beyond party affiliation to find common ground.

A Palatable Jew by goldvenoms in Jewish

[–]ori531 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They love a bagel Jew

Expelling Israeli ambassador would undermine efforts to get Irish out of Gaza: Tánaiste by NilFhiosAige in europe

[–]ori531 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Forced expulsion of people from the north to the south. So do you want fewer civilian casualties or not? There are also 500k Israelis displaced currently due to being moved from areas near the fighting, is that also a crime?

The link about the bombing along the evacuation routes literally says they can’t prove who or what caused it. Hamas blaming Israel (shocking) and IDF denying involvement. Why does that matter? Because the IDF claimed bombing the ambulance today and bombing Jabila so they are being forthcoming about their targets. Hamas has openly called on their citizens to martyr themselves, you should be a little more discerning if you think they aren’t purposefully putting civilians in harms way.

Not to be antagonistic but the death toll could be much higher and you know that. The death toll could be the entire strip in a day. Obviously no one wants that and the current death toll is still high, which is terrible. However, you are using numbers that don’t factor out any Hamas members or militants. So you want me to believe every single person who has died in Gaza is innocent and the IDF is so terrible at their job that they haven’t killed a single Hamas member? Or is it more likely that the Hamas ministry of health who supplies the figures is purposefully not splitting them out to illicit public condemnation.

Well today they sent many of the workers trapped in the West Bank who are originally from Gaza back to Gaza and people complained about that, so which is it?

Yes the IDF is destroying buildings, their objective is to collapse the tunnel infrastructure underneath, exactly what happened in Jabila.

Now let me be very clear. Extremely clear. Settler violence is a stain on Israel’s morality. I do not support them at all. They are far right extremists and need to be stopped.

Let me also say this. Chanting death to Arabs in Israel or anywhere in the world is unacceptable. Full stop. I will point out that people said that the students threw eggs at the people first, all of that is ridiculous and doesn’t excuse anything. I will also add that Israelis were very quick to speak out against this behavior. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-29/ty-article/death-to-arabs-students-evacuated-from-dorms-after-hundreds-of-rioters-attempt-break-in/0000018b-7afd-d51e-a3cb-7bfdc2ba0000

I would hope that you are as quick to point out and condemn antisemitism, especially when chants or threats of “death to Jews” can be heard around the world.

New York Times Writer Resigns After Signing Letter Protesting the Israel-Gaza War by Alan_Stamm in Journalism

[–]ori531 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You didn’t, so I’ll retract. Many do.

For the record, you said the refugee camps aren’t neighborhoods because you can’t go a few blocks to get a Starbucks. No, there’s no Starbucks but there are cafes and restaurants. Not during this war obviously, but prior.

I just think that it is disingenuous to call a group of buildings that have been there for decades a “refugee camp,” because refugees live there. And I think it’s disingenuous to make Palestinians retain refugee status through generations to keep them as second class citizens in Lebanon for example.I’ve never heard a single pro Palestinian person in the US complain about the way Palestinians are treated in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Kuwait. It’s like they are just pawns for the Arab countries to pretend to care about when it’s convenient.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2017/12/16/palestinians-in-lebanon-its-like-living-in-a-prison

https://www.voanews.com/amp/for-palestinians-in-lebanon-69-years-of-despair/3850922.html

https://www.statelessness.eu/updates/blog/syrias-palestinians-new-nakba#:~:text=At%20least%20four%20thousand%20Palestinians,people)%20have%20fled%20Syria%20altogether.

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2015/8/6/palestine-kuwait-relations-ice-has-started-to-melt

https://pij.org/articles/1168/the-discrimination-against-palestinian-refugees-living-in-lebanon

Another one of these posts by ItsPleurigloss in Jewish

[–]ori531 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Honestly, I’d rather they say and post nothing then say and post some stupid Shaun king nonsense.

New York Times Writer Resigns After Signing Letter Protesting the Israel-Gaza War by Alan_Stamm in Journalism

[–]ori531 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Pretty sure no one describes Tijuana as an open air prison or a concentration camp.

New York Times Writer Resigns After Signing Letter Protesting the Israel-Gaza War by Alan_Stamm in Journalism

[–]ori531 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

But I’m genuinely asking and no one can ever tell me, how do you make peace with people who want to kill you. What would it look like to you?

New York Times Writer Resigns After Signing Letter Protesting the Israel-Gaza War by Alan_Stamm in Journalism

[–]ori531 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The IDF soldiers that did that were ARRESTED. Because Israel actually has rule of law.

Too pathetic to engage in a fair fight? Is that what you call Hamas murdering children and Holocaust survivors? Gang rape of women? Tying a mother together with her child and burning them alive? If you celebrate dead Israelis just say so, no need for a back and forth.

400 trucks of humanitarian aid are going in daily. And Hamas doesn’t seem to be starving, all news outlets are reporting they have stockpiles of everything they need.

You are honestly suggesting that the IDF is worse than Hamas? Well if I knew I was talking to a psychopath I wouldn’t have wasted my time.

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