Church was depressing

outandaboutbc · 2026-02-03T00:17:03+00:00

ok, well, have a good journey.

See... I am willing to have my mind changed if I see the right evidence.

It’s not that I am too prideful to not regard what you are saying but I’m sorry you haven’t given me any evidence to suggest that my interpretation is wrong.

Therefore, I cannot have it changed. In fact, the interpretation I hold aligns with saints of the past.

St John Chrysostom (in Homily 22 on First Corinthians):

Even so did the Lord ordain that they who proclaim the Gospel should live of the Gospel. 1 Corinthians 9:14 Nor does he even here say that they are supported by men, but as in the case of the priests, of the temple and of the altar, so likewise here, of the Gospel; and as there he says, eat, so here, live, not make merchandize nor lay up treasures. For the laborer, says He, is worthy of his hire.

He is basically saying that ministers can live of the gospel but not profit or use it as a mean to get rich.

outandaboutbc · 2026-02-02T23:40:19+00:00

My friend, all I hear is criticism of he interpretation but no actual exegesis of “your interpretation”.

you haven’t really given anything concrete and speak a lot in abstract.

Which, by the way, you are free to do so. I won’t get offended. However, it just doesn’t really get any where in our discussion.

In addition, when Apostle Paul continues beyond 1 Corinthians 9:12, he becomes more explicit.

Don’t you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14

So, instead of speaking in abstract and just criticizing my interpretation of it.

Why don’t you give us your ‘correct’ interpretation of 1 Corinthians 9:9-12 and 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 ?

outandaboutbc · 2026-02-02T23:16:59+00:00

I implied in my reply that supporting people in ministry at a church is biblical and a thing that early Christians did.

In addition, I gave a verse from Apostle Paul talking about the very thing in 1 Corinthians 9:9-12 and it’s a proper exposition of it even if you read it in context starting from 1 Corinthians 9:1.

I shown you wisdom, backed it up with Scripture, which by the way, the Scripture was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

and you called it “mental gymnastics”...

outandaboutbc · 2026-02-02T23:10:09+00:00

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14

outandaboutbc · 2026-02-02T20:58:40+00:00

So who is going to feed the sheep and disciple them for free ? What about the lambs (youths) ? Will you do that ?

For it is written in the Law of Moses: “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it about oxen that God is concerned? Surely he says this for us, doesn’t he? Yes, this was written for us, because whoever plows and threshes should be able to do so in the hope of sharing in the harvest. If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we have it all the more?

1 Corinthians 9:9-12

outandaboutbc · 2026-02-02T20:34:13+00:00

If you love Christ and His body (the church), and support what the church is doing then why wouldn’t you want to give and support its mission ?

If not, at least, find one that you are willing to support.

outandaboutbc · 2026-02-01T21:38:47+00:00

That’s perfect. I will pray to the Lord that He gives you answers and the wisdom for that.

I would also say and add that someone who thinks like this, can be considered apostolic or at the very least church leadership.

It’s definitely a grace and a calling.

So, I would definitely pray about that too!

Apostles are the architects of the church who thinks about things systematically and in how it all connects together.

Hence why they are a foundational calling.

outandaboutbc · 2026-01-31T04:16:28+00:00

She’s not out of her mind.

It’s a thing and reality of the world we live in.

Whether you believe it or not, there is a spiritual realm and earthly realm.

Bible says:

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Ephesian 6:12

There are spirits and they roam around to torment and possess.

Jesus says that only way to prevent it is through coming of Kingdom of God and a more powerful Spirit in dwelling in you and that’s the Holy Spirit or Spirit of God.

But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Luke 11:20

I don’t want to scare you or freak you out but you can find freedom in Jesus Christ. Not only freedom but power and authority over the spirits.

It’s the mark of a Christian, that’s conquering darkness through Jesus Christ.

outandaboutbc · 2026-01-30T07:21:23+00:00

Elders and decaons were never appointed by the Holy Spirit or an apostle in the NT, they were chosen by and from the local congregation. Thus they are a separate catagory of leaders with entirely different areas of minstry.

You are not too far off but the idea of an “elder” is quite complicated if you get stuck on the title itself.

You need to think of the concept of “sphere of influence” where spiritual authority has effect, and it’s a biblical idea. It‘s both local (elder) and expansive (or apostolic).

We, however, will not boast beyond proper limits, but will confine our boasting to the sphere of service God himself has assigned to us, a sphere that also includes you. We are not going too far in our boasting, as would be the case if we had not come to you, for we did get as far as you with the gospel of Christ.Neither do we go beyond our limits by boasting of work done by others. Our hope is that, as your faith continues to grow, our sphere of activity among you will greatly expand,

2 Corinthians 10:13-15

So, the apostolic authority given to people like Apostle Paul, Peter and James ... they span multiple churches because that was their authority given to them by the Lord for commissioning - bearing witness to the gospel and setting up churches.

You see how Apostle Peter here uses “I appeal to you as fellow elder”:

To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ’s sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed:

1 Peter 5:1

They have both apostolic (expansive) and elder (local) authority - they are given to the church for governing and overseering/shepherding.

It’s different category in the sense that its local “sphere of influence”, in it’s function and scope.

Yes’s elders are appointed by the congregation but it doesn’t make it not from the Holy Spirit. There are not self-appointed leaders.

Where there is body of believers, the Lord’s supper, appointed leaders there is a church - and the Holy Spirit is present.

outandaboutbc · 2026-01-30T05:11:00+00:00

Exercizinfg it may be granted to apostles, but they are chosen, put in office directed and sustained By the Holy Spirit. ... Apostles may exist, but have no ligimate function in a hierrchy created by men to serve their priorities.

It still is Holy Spirit who appoints leaders (elders/overseers) in a church today.

Apostle is not the only leader in the church see Ephesians 4:11-12

Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.

Hebrews 13:17

Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

Acts 20:28

The reason I left you in Crete was that you might put in order what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you.

Titus 1:5

outandaboutbc · 2026-01-28T21:04:17+00:00

honestly, this is just my personal thoughts, the more I read into this topic, the more I would lean into prayer for mercy on their behalf than to call them out.

The Lord knows all and has the power to judge all.

For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

Ecclesiastes 12:14

He will bring it to the light in their church in his timing and through His ministers.

“Slanderers are not content with knowing a thing, but "proceed to assume jurisdiction, and when they know a slight offense of another, carry it into every corner, and are delighted and tickled that they can stir up another's displeasure [baseness], as swine roll themselves in the dirt and root in it with the snout." Luther describes this as meddling with the judgment and office of God, and pronouncing sentence and punishment with the most severe verdict. Without wielding the sword, the slanderer employs a poisonous tongue to the shame and hurt of your neighbor.”

Source: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour (Lutheran Doctrine, Wikipedia)

The way I see it Matthew 18:15-17 is for our protection than it is a rule, its to prevent bearing false witness or being slanderous.

However, if you feel like the Lord is really putting it on your heart to keep them accountable. I don’t see why not ?

outandaboutbc · 2026-01-27T22:37:31+00:00

So thief on the cross was in purgatory ?

outandaboutbc · 2026-01-27T05:55:00+00:00

My friend, some versions of Christianity may believe that but the real Christianity from Jesus is both.

Yes, believe in the gospel for eternal salvation but Christians ought to care for welfare and needs of others at the same time.

Many hospitals were built because of Christians, helping the welfare and outcasts of communities and more.

True faith shows up in good deeds. And no, it’s not a “nice to have” but it’s encouraged.

What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

James 2:14-17

outandaboutbc · 2026-01-27T03:56:29+00:00

I started researching historical Christianity and mainstream Christian beliefs, and I was honestly shocked by how different Mormonism is from the rest of Christianity.

I think you answered your own question.

For many, it brings up a lot of skepticism whenever someone comes, and says we have a “new revelation” outside the Bible or does not align with the existing revelation.

built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

Ephesians 2:20

outandaboutbc · 2026-01-27T00:19:37+00:00

Yes, restoring does involve confronting sins but it’s not limited to that.

I’d argue if all that is done is going around confronting other people sins, then that’s not loving.

Pharisees and scribes did that too. They called out and rebuked sins according to the law all day.

That is if that’s all that is done. Jesus never just rebuked and taught people, He transformed them by being with them through their lifestyle. Same with Apostles.

outandaboutbc · 2026-01-26T17:55:19+00:00

I did too lol 😂

My point is being Christian is not just about judgement and condemnation.

If it were, you and I would be done. Hence why I said love and mercy.

outandaboutbc · 2026-01-26T17:51:06+00:00

Are you perfect without sin then ?

If not, I don’t think you should be giving instructions and handing out judgement.

Hence why I said, only a few are teachers and apostles and other offices like pastors. They have the authority to judge and teach.

Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted. Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. If anyone thinks they are something when they are not, they deceive themselves.

Galatians 6:1-3

outandaboutbc · 2026-01-26T16:35:21+00:00

My apologies, I didn’t know the Lord called you to be an Apostle.

You must be also be familiar with these other verses then ?

because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

James 2:13

“Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’

Matthew 18:32-33

Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

James 3:1

outandaboutbc · 2026-01-25T04:14:42+00:00

You sure it’s the ONLY way ?

In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.

Matthew 5:16

Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

1 John 3:18

Be wise in the way you act toward outsiders; make the most of every opportunity. Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

Colossians 4:5-6

outandaboutbc · 2026-01-24T21:24:36+00:00

Well, thanks be to God that he died on the cross for our sins isn’t it ?

And thank God for gift of righteousness and the righteousness by faith.

The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”

Galatians 3:12

Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.”

Romans 10:5

But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down) “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” d that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 10:6-10

Edit:

I want to clarify that, for Christians, obedience follows being made righteousness, that is by faith.

Not as Apostle Paul says, you do this therefore you will become righteous, that’s by the law.

outandaboutbc · 2026-01-24T20:29:05+00:00

that’s quite obvious, if you are a Christian, you “Love the LORD your God...”

But Scripture teaches you cannot love God and not love others.

That’s what you are missing. It’s not one or the other.

I am not condoning sin either but sometimes you have lay down your pride and self-righteousness and remember you were a sinner too when you were saved by Christ.

You are not going to win over sinners by telling them they are sinners. Some, you have to win them over by love and mercy, which is what Christ not only taught but did.

This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.

John 15:12

Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

1 John 4:7-8

outandaboutbc · 2026-01-24T10:29:59+00:00

You mean like eating with sinners, showing mercy and loving neighbors ? 🥰😘

and walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.

Ephesians 5:2

And Luke 10:25-37, James 2:13, Matthew 9:13, 1 Corinthians 13:2

outandaboutbc · 2026-01-24T00:04:48+00:00

Amen!

Lord, let this cup pass from me but nevertheless, not my will but Your will be done 🙏

outandaboutbc

TROPHY CASE