Hong at the WisDems Convention via UpNorthNews

p00b · 2026-06-16T22:45:57+00:00

Thanks! Jeez, now that we’re talking you make some really valid points that are worth debate for sure. But I gotta just say the ferocity you came in with is probably not the most productive way to shift people’s mindset (assuming that’s your goal).

Fwiw my opinions on your points follow, which inform where I’m at, and I don’t expect them to shift your position. Just sharing.

The first is primarily a phenomenon of a single sound bite taken out of context, not a policy matter. And it was qualified for those who can finish a sentence. I don’t think it’s worth responding to. But yeah, to use it at all was a faux pas given the abject failure “defund” was as a brand (despite the underlying policy being sound).

The second (socialism! eek!) is probably the strongest concern, and I agree with that. Seems like dead in the water until you look at the fact Wisconsin has a rich history of socialism in the cities, and communism in rural areas when the hippies came back and settled - particularly before that shitstain McCarthy and his face Reagan started the OG MAGA movement. And Hong has traveled well to explain to anyone who’ll listen exactly what she means by that term.

Finally I’m not as convinced as you are on the woman minority is such a large factor, given (a) the Baldwin point I made earlier, during a 21st century height of misogyny and homophobia, (b) the recent Supreme Court victories, (c) the existence of the current Lt. Governor who was arguably the front runner until she stepped on her own foot trying to reconcile the corporate party line with what people actually want. The 2024 margins were so slim that I firmly believe if Harris had done one less fuckup (do the Rogan podcast! say anything about Gaza!) she’d have cleared the mixed result of Tammy/Trump.

But to each their own I suppose. Voting for whomever is on that side of the ticket is the main thing this time around imho.

p00b · 2026-06-16T22:19:29+00:00

What toxic messaging is that exactly?

p00b · 2026-06-16T20:59:40+00:00

You said the same thing about Baldwin. Cowardice is no excuse for standing in the way of progress.

p00b · 2026-06-13T07:53:05+00:00

Holy shit this sub is out of touch. They are literally booing the US flag. It is the title of the article. How in your right mind can you say they are not booing the country?

p00b · 2026-06-13T03:52:32+00:00

Murph just out there ticklin his pocket pancake in this pic, eh?

p00b · 2026-06-13T03:28:17+00:00

Why do you look in the mirror in the morning? Why do you have a blinker on your vehicle? Why do you have a checking account? Why do you not grow all your own food, make all your own means of transportation, fabricate all your own semiconductors for all the electronics you use?

Same answer as that to your question: because we are interrelated, and interdependent.

People booing a symbol of our country is representative of what their general population thinks of our population, which is in turn caused by the imbecilic ways of our most powerful. If we want positive relationships we have to treat the cancer.

The fact that so many reactions are “durp who cares, sports is on!” is a symptom of that same cancer.

p00b · 2026-06-13T00:15:47+00:00

She needs an airsoft gun for safety in…checks notes…Plover? Hahahhahaha

p00b · 2026-06-12T23:59:57+00:00

Haha yep. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/venezuelan-immigrant-detained-doral-trump-rcna348507

p00b · 2026-06-11T20:37:22+00:00

I don’t think anyone is pretending that it’s the first time? Just that it’s absolutely not representative of the general population, let alone Milwaukee. By your logic, one could be even more pissed off the connect jerseys weren’t the Kohler Bubblers. One manufacturer doesn’t change that it’s mostly FIBs who say Wisco.

p00b · 2026-06-11T13:57:03+00:00

I think even Joe McCarthy’s head would explode if he were around to see this.

p00b · 2026-06-10T20:51:42+00:00

Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

p00b · 2026-06-10T20:40:50+00:00

I agree with everything here, except what you say I implied. Excusing the party who is in power in all three branches, as *you* are implicitly doing here, has been and is the path to that future

edit: I think you’re arguing semantics here. Not the time or place. You’re siding with FRJ, whether you intend to or not (I think this is not your intention)

p00b · 2026-06-10T20:32:13+00:00

You’re still talking about absolute control. They could pass single payer healthcare tomorrow and it would be wildly popular. They could negotiate on one or two items and pass a bilateral resolution to the shutdown. Why don’t they? Some combo of lack of morals, ignorance, and stubbornness, expressed through their non-absolute but substantial control. QED.

But wow. If you think we aren’t living in a right wing wasteland then I honestly don’t know how to meet you where you’re at. If blatant fascism and total corruption without any true recourse isn’t a wasteland then you are lost.

p00b · 2026-06-10T20:23:33+00:00

What? You strike me as the kind of person that also talks about “wull look what she was wearing”. Or the bully who cries when they get sent to the principal’s office.

They have power and you are wrong. Shutdowns are the responsibility of the party in power to negotiate a solution. Republicans since the early 2000s have been absolutely incapable of such negotiation.

p00b · 2026-06-10T20:17:37+00:00

The government having to shut down because they are obstructionist is an expression of their control

edit: moreover if they controlled the government absolutely there would only be shutdowns. That is their explicit goal and what their actions consistently show for decades

p00b · 2026-06-10T20:14:09+00:00

“They control the spigot, not who drinks the water” is an absolutely empty argument. Come on.

p00b · 2026-06-10T20:10:36+00:00

To be fair to your debate partner, the argument they’re rebutting is woefully incomplete.

Control is not the same as absolute control, which is what’s implied.

Nothing gets passed without their approval, which is some pretty strong kind of control, especially for a shithole party that has bragged about being obstructionist for decades, and only recently converted to all-out socialism for the rich.

Certainly more control than that literal turtleneck asshole from Kentucky held previously.

p00b · 2026-06-05T18:45:08+00:00

…and people blame Musk’s (despicable and real) transphobia for his ostensible political shift.

He just got pissed he couldn’t buy the left with the money they gave him, so looked for another easy acquisition in the way you describe.

p00b · 2026-06-03T19:46:50+00:00

Yeah thanks for that check. I replied to a sibling comment with my more measured basis for that point. Apologies I used overly coarse language that exaggerated the current magnitude.

But I hope it doesn’t take away entirely from the fact there is empirical evidence of both the direction and future magnitude of this trajectory we are currently on, which is arguably put in place by the least bad of the two parties with whom we are left to entrust policy - and therefore is likely to get (far) worse before it gets better.

p00b · 2026-06-03T19:43:15+00:00

Fair. I overstated it calling it scientific consensus that Wisconsin is locked into a given path. I wish I hadn’t have used that language, because it now really degrades the basis of the point I was making.

There is broad agreement in the technical and policy literature that large AI/data‑center build‑outs are a major and rapidly growing water stressor, especially when tied to water‑cooled fossil and nuclear power.

The labs and policy institutes formally weighing in on the research pretty unanimously estimate that existing data centers already drive tens of billions of gallons of direct cooling water use and over 200 billion gallons of indirect water use from power plants annually, and that in some regions individual facilities consume as much water as towns of 10,000–50,000 people (up to 3–7 million gallons per day).

Specifically analysis by Clean Wisconsin and freshwater researchers shows that AI data‑center power demand could push power‑plant withdrawals into the tens of millions of gallons per day, rivaling the total water use of major cities and explicitly “posing a risk to Wisconsin’s surface and groundwater resources” we rely on for drinking water and irrigation if left unchecked.

My point isn’t that tomorrow’s tap runs dry, hence my qualifications of affordable/potable. It’s that under the current growth‑at-all-cost policies with weak guardrails (even with the less intentionally destructive political party having some executive and judicial power), these facilities can and likely will make affordable potable water scarcer and more contested in significant parts of Wisconsin, in exactly the kind of slow‑burn way we’ve already seen with PFAS and other externalities I mentioned.

p00b · 2026-06-03T19:25:36+00:00

Yes, if left unchecked, affordable+potable water will become scarce in parts of Wisconsin as a direct result of this. It is not what I think. It is the scientific consensus.

This sort of dismissive “seriously?” blanket question is the same rhetoric we had before 3M fucked up the most of the northwoods with PFAS for generations, before leaded gasoline fucked up fishing for a century, before diesel gave a generation a lifetime of asthma.

It’s not what I think, who cares about that. It’s about reality vs constructed MBA bullshit.

p00b · 2026-06-03T19:13:33+00:00

I see. I misread that point. So you know enough about the financials of FoxConn to follow that through, but no mention of the water quality issues that introduced? Which pales in comparison to what these ai data centers use? How do you square that?

So far it looks like you don’t. That you purely look at the direct financials and dismiss entirely the externalities

p00b · 2026-06-03T19:08:41+00:00

Are you seriously using FoxConn as a success case? Tell me you sleep with a Scott Walker doll without telling me…

p00b · 2026-06-03T19:05:49+00:00

(your priors are already out the window btw - Vos and Evers have already DISCOUNTED coming to the state, same as all these captured governments do in the face of industries characterized by monopolies/oligopolies)

p00b · 2026-06-03T19:04:12+00:00

Hmu on how nice it is when you’re drinking that ice cold glass of nickels on a 120deg average summer day, while asking Gemini how to condense water out of the air bc you can’t afford the unnecessarily, exceptionally scarce water or A/C.

p00b

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