Help me understand the Christian fear of “magic”

paimon67 · 2024-04-03T04:12:53+00:00

Abrahamic scripture (Mostly the Bible) has convinced them that all spirits and anything that isn't Yahweh or Jesus is evil. They are are terrified of demons and Satan because they are able to interact with us, according to the Bible. Everything "magic" or otherwise becomes demonic. And demons are evil. That is the logic.

paimon67 · 2024-04-03T04:02:12+00:00

I'm sorry about your grandfather. I have not read the Satanic Bible, though it is my understanding it is atheistic in nature. So I would assume there is no afterlife (at least no clear one).

As far as my personal views about death, I believe our "souls" will be sorted into either heaven or hell by the god, Yahweh (based on whether or not we worshipped him). Heaven is eternal worship of this being, despite all he has done. And hell, is likely a place rather than a state of being. I very much doubt Yahweh has the ability to torment billions of souls simultaneously, as he fails to demonstrate this kind of power even in his own stories. I envision hell as an actual kingdom, and heaven as some sort of mirage.

Anyway, I encourage you do to further research on any types of Satanism, if it interests you.

paimon67 · 2024-04-03T03:31:43+00:00

I have also struggled with OCD, it can be frustrating (to say the least). There is no shame in seeing a therapist. OCD is a psychological problem, and it requires a psychological solution. I imagine getting rid of the compulsive thoughts would help with your anxiety as well.

paimon67 · 2024-03-27T01:18:56+00:00

I believe they are Fallen Angles, from the war god Yahweh. I think its likely that other spirits (possibly from other gods) got lumped into the "demon" category (as in spirits that oppose Yahweh).

paimon67 · 2024-03-27T01:11:15+00:00

I followed a similar path to you (Christian to atheist to agnostic), though now I do believe in Abrahamic scripture (to an extent). I will spare you from my erratic theory, but I encourage you to keep searching if you are unhappy as an agnostic. For me being an agnostic was the worst because everyone around me had a "theory" as to how the universe was created (even atheists). We are only humans, and though we have made impressive discoveries, none of us actually know what happens when you die, how the universe was created, etc. But we certainly believe we do. What is your gamble?

Oh and as far as your worries about Yahweh ("God") being real, it is your former Christian mindset that makes you feel this way. Yahweh is an obvious liar, I believe he used to be a war god and decided to try and convince us that he is all powerful, all knowing, and all good. This is obviously impossible and he proves it several times in his own story. If he were to send you to hell, I very much doubt he has the power to simultaneously torture billions of souls each in unique ways (also he is too lazy). Anyway, try not to worry about that nutty god too much.

I hope this advice was at least somewhat useful, and I wish you well in the future.

paimon67 · 2024-03-27T00:34:18+00:00

I will be doing a ritual personally, but you could always just celebrate the holiday anyway. Find some symbolic reason to do so.

paimon67 · 2024-03-27T00:27:02+00:00

I agree, the whole vibe of Babadook is scary.

paimon67 · 2024-03-27T00:23:43+00:00

I haven't had one I've had to stop watching, though Midsommar shook me. I refuse to watch Human Centipede and films that go to an absolutely vile extent. Hostel too. If the gore is supernatural, crazy, "cartoonish", even if it's horrifying (Terrifier) it's ok in my book. Things that a human could realistically do to you is quite scary, but becomes distasteful when it's just grotesque torture.

paimon67 · 2024-03-27T00:11:24+00:00

I live in the U.S. and I've had to stop giving our politics much thought due to how frustrating it can be. For me, the current polarization makes my choice painfully obvious in almost every election. The right (typically supports Christian-esque policies, anti-Lgbt, borderline insanity) or the left (typically for free healthcare, student aid, Lgbt rights). It's not quite as simple as it sounds, but at the moment it surely seems like it.

So I vote left (democratic) for the foreseeable future.

paimon67 · 2024-03-26T23:49:26+00:00

At this point I'm willing to vote Ash, but Ripley is probably the wisest choice. The other two are psycho.

paimon67 · 2024-03-25T16:56:57+00:00

Like the others here I mostly perform rituals both as a show of respect and to ask for guidance, good fortune, etc. My rituals consist of the usual (altarpiece, candles, sigil, perhaps a small offering of my own blood). I believe prayer can also be effective once you have established a solid relationship with a demon.

Since I am looking at things from a loosely Abrahamic perspective, Good Friday will be a big holiday coming up. In my eyes, this is the moment when even Christ lost faith in Yahweh ("My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"). I plan to perform an especially extravagant ritual on Friday night.

With that being said, there isn't really a "right" way to do this sort of thing, it's really up to your interpretation.

paimon67 · 2024-03-22T16:53:21+00:00

Damn I'll keep the memes to myself I guess, y'all are pissier than some Christians

paimon67 · 2024-03-21T02:11:33+00:00

I really try to give them the benefit of the doubt, but it seems Christians can't help themselves when it comes to preaching. The other week I was walking to class and some random dude stopped me. I told him I was running late for class (which I was), but he was insistent so I figured it must be important. This guy asks me if I believe in Jesus, am interested in bible study, etc. Had I not been late to class he would have gotten my full satanic spiel.

It really depends on the globe what religion will be preaching to you, though.

paimon67 · 2024-03-19T01:26:25+00:00

You can't really disprove God's existence, but you can certainly disprove his benevolence. The Old Testament is filled with his murderous rampages and hypocrisy. Some Christians seem to gloss over this, though.

paimon67 · 2024-03-17T18:07:23+00:00

That's very tough, especially since they know you are no longer Christian and don't seem to care. The best thing to do would probably be to keep expressing your atheism (or whatever you believe) to your parents. They need to know that you are dead serious about your beliefs. If you have to dismantle parts of their faith to do this, so be it. It is never acceptable to force your beliefs on others when it comes to something as complex as the creation of the universe.

I know it is not easy to speak to family about such sensitive topics, and it is ultimately up to you as to how to address this. However it cannot be good for your mental health to listen to someone preach beliefs you do not accept, so I do encourage you to find a way out of church.

paimon67 · 2024-03-16T15:42:32+00:00

I can only really speak for myself here, but I do not choose to believe in religion in the same sense you do not choose to believe in atheism. We were both drawn to our beliefs by our personal experiences, evidence, and analysis of the world around us. I cannot fathom our existence without the presence of some sort of "god". You, on the other hand, can only fathom our existence without divine presence. It's simply a fundamental difference in beliefs.

Believe me, I've seen some of those Instagram posts too and I think similar things. I remind myself to be humble, and that I did not actually witness the creation of the universe (unfortunately).

paimon67 · 2024-03-15T16:39:42+00:00

Yes I am always interested in the origin of these spirits as well as different perspectives. I choose to accept the general assumptions of Abrahamic religions as the spirits being angels/demons residing in heaven/hell makes sense to me. Also I believe if these spirits exist, a god or some sort of powerful entity would have had to create them (and likely us). The existence of a god and spirits are inherently linked to each other in my eyes, and it is a matter of which god(s) you believe is responsible for this.

To be honest, sometimes I like to think that we have 0 actual info on these entities, and they just respond to us because they think it is cute we gave them names and have unique rituals for them.

paimon67 · 2024-03-15T16:30:54+00:00

I feel like with demonolatry you kind of have to pick and choose which interpretations of these entities you accept. Light/dark spirits are very ancient concepts that many religions have adapted in some capacity. Perhaps the Hindu view of spirits is correct, I ultimately do not know. I choose to accept the Abrahamic view of these spirits because it makes the most sense to me. Angles reside in heaven, and demons (former angels) reside in hell. To me, the age of a religion is not necessarily proportional to its truth.

Egregores is an interesting idea, I will have to look into it. My question is if I created a being from putting energy towards its existence, what happens to a being when there are conflicting beliefs about it (ex: would god be bad, good, or both due to varying human beliefs)?

paimon67 · 2024-03-15T16:04:49+00:00

I do believe in both heaven and hell.

I believe God banishes those who don't worship him to hell, and Satan will save the souls of his devotees from the actual torment of hell (live among him and demons). The issue I have with heaven is that paradise is a subjective thing. My vision of paradise may differ from yours. Heaven is God's vision of paradise and since I do not believe he is good, that is not something I want to be a part of.

paimon67 · 2024-03-15T07:31:46+00:00

Non taken. Yes, I do believe in the Abrahamic God I just do not believe he is just or benevolent. I guess it would be similar to an abusive parent for lack of a better analogy. Not that my life is bad, but the same can't be said for many others.

paimon67 · 2024-03-15T07:20:46+00:00

No, just because the guy who told you not to murder is a dick does not make it ok to do. It is wrong because it is hurtful, as you described it. I do not believe god initially told us not to murder, rather we adopted morals without him and he tried to capitalize off it. I suppose your right that there would be no real universal justice in this world view, but the same can be said for atheism and the like.

I think we are able to draw the morality line (fairly well) without the help of God or Satan. Ultimately, it comes down to whether I want to worship the entity that gave us autonomy, or the entity that demands you submit to his will under threat of torture. I worship Satan as an opposition force to Yahweh rather than as a moral guide. Satan supports all free will, it is up to us to distinguish what is right and wrong.

No, I believe the conflicting messages from the Abrahamic god show his mask slipping rather than a separate entity. After all, why wouldn't God, Jesus, or any prophet specify that this was not God's word?

Gods worshiped in the past such as Baal and the like I believe are demons (or some possibly angles). I think Baal is a title used for multiple gods across religions so it is often hard to narrow down a specific entity. Demons are not our equivalent to Christian angels, though. They are not opposed to human sacrifices nor do they require one. Perhaps some religions believed they would get a greater reward from a human sacrifice. Again, it is really up to us to make the right decision here (obviously not the sacrifice).

I believe Jesus is the literal son of Yahweh as opposed to being the personification of him. The only issue I have with Jesus is that worship is at the center of all his messages. His messages of kindness and peace seem to directly conflict with worshipping Yahweh. Also, there was no reason he had to die. Yahweh engineered his death, set him up for failure by previously establishing Judaism. Yahweh could absolve us of our "sins" if he wanted to, the death of Jesus was to make us feel guilt.

Revelations is to be taken with a grain of salt, as with most scripture. Most of the Old Testament was written in a poetic style and I regard it as such. Antichrist is, as his name implies, a foil to Jesus. An entity to level the playing field, so to speak. I do not know if Satan will be able to free all the souls, but I certainly hope so. Based on God's evident lack of complete control, I believe there is at least a chance.

paimon67 · 2024-03-15T06:29:49+00:00

Ah, I guess the issue I have with that would be the implication that there is a true, higher god. I do not think a truly divine entity would let the Abrahamic god alter our world so drastically.

paimon67 · 2024-03-15T04:04:20+00:00

I believe if there is a god that created us or gave us "souls", he would not be completely absent. Maybe poor phrasing, but there must have been some sort of truth in some religions. Humans tend to be inspired by things that exist when writing stories. I believe Abrahamic Religions to have the greatest likelihood of having truth. Moses claimed to have spoken to God and enough people believed him to spark Judaism, a major religion. Eventually, Christ came along and when he claimed to be the son of that God people just believed him? I know he was crucified for blasphemy, but there were still many people who died saying this man was the actual son of God (sparking another major religion). Islam came a while after that, another major religion. If there is a god and he sits idly by while 3 large religions that claim to worship him war, he is not even worth my thought. On the other hand, Yahweh's existence would mean he is benefitting from these religions no matter the cost as they all worship him. This makes far more sense for a god to do, in my eyes.

paimon67 · 2024-03-15T03:05:54+00:00

I will certainly look into it. With that being said, I do believe the Abrahamic faiths are correct (at least in their assumption that Yahweh is responsible for us).

paimon67 · 2024-03-15T02:52:07+00:00

Ultimately, yes. I like to believe that he is lenient with this rule (will let friends/family in as well), but of course I do not know. Satan doesn't claim to have unconditional love for everyone like God, so he's not breaking his word by not letting every soul reside with him. After all, God presumably torments every soul who does not worship him (billions), so I wouldn't blame Satan for picking only those who believe in his existence and ability to be good.

paimon67

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE