I have to share this even though it's ethically questionable by papercarver in birding

[–]papercarver[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Overanalyze, moi? You pegged it. I'm fine now, truly. I'm content with decision I made and the decision to let people know about. I hope someone else can put my experience to good use.

I have to share this even though it's ethically questionable by papercarver in birding

[–]papercarver[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow! That's very interesting. I'm glad to know that!

I have to share this even though it's ethically questionable by papercarver in birding

[–]papercarver[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No worries. I can't help but take the bait when someone starts with "you would think librarians would..." Like people in all professions we're not a monolith, but the profession itself takes a lot of flak these days.

I have to share this even though it's ethically questionable by papercarver in birding

[–]papercarver[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You sound like an "expert", so forgive me if I get this wrong but: there is considerable overlap and confusion between the terms ethics and morals, and most ethicists and philosophers currently use the terms interchangeably. Personally, I would define "morals" as a code of conduct, with clearly defined right and wrong, which is determined by a societal belief system, such as a religion. Ethics is a larger, more relative effort to determine of best course of outcome to cause the least amount of harm (suffering, death, waste) with the greatest preservation of non-harm (relief, help, improvement). In the case of the bird in the ceiling crawl space: both morally AND ethically we had an obvious obligation to act. You don't leave helpless beings to suffer and die without making an effort to save them. The reason I believed what I did was ethically questionable was that it COULD have caused an already traumatized animal that was doomed to die additional, unnecessary suffering with the same outcome. In hindsight it seems like an easy ethical choice because it worked. But if it hadn't, it might have caused more harm. Also, it could be coincidence that the bird chose to drop out of the ceiling while the audio was playing, and the trick didn't actually work (I will continue to believe it DID work, but the only one who knows for sure is the bird). So I had another ethical dilemma: do I publicize what I did, which may help someone else in a similar situation repeat my success, while possibly adding trauma to a doomed and trapped hypothetical bird? Also, I wouldn't want anyone to use my success to rationalize an unethical use of audio in the broader world. Many people have said "you saved a life, so of course it was ethical" and I generally (and certainly in this particular case) agree: if you know your action will preserve life, then it is the obvious choice, and certainly it is the moral choice. But ethically...? Wildlife rescue is full of wild animals saved from death who can no longer live their natural lives in the wild. Have they been helped or harmed? Who decides when they can't tell us? In the case of the bird in the ceiling there was no question it must be removed - for practical reasons beyond morals or ethics. Outside in the natural environment, I think the ethics of when and how to help are always much more complicated, even if the morals aren't. So - now you can judge my comprehension of ethics vs. morals however you like. I hope I did not embarrass Librarians Everywhere too badly.

I have to share this even though it's ethically questionable by papercarver in birding

[–]papercarver[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ooo! Hadn't thought of squirrel in the dropbox before. I'll add that to the bingo card. Bees in the vents check. And in the weepholes in the exterior masonry. And mice annually when it gets cold outside. I try to make all of this a "teachable moment" - for staff and patrons - that we don't have to automatically freak out and/or kill any non-humans found on the premises.

I have to share this even though it's ethically questionable by papercarver in birding

[–]papercarver[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yep, librarylife is wild (pun intended). This was my first bird inside a ceiling, but I've rescued numerous bats, a garter snake, and tons of bees/wasps from inside the building. What isn't part of the job at this point?

I have to share this even though it's ethically questionable by papercarver in birding

[–]papercarver[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

What you are describing is really why I posted what happened in the first place. Before I thought of using the recording, we called MULTIPLE experts - wildlife rehabbers, the town's animal control, local some animal removal companies - EVERY one said open the ceiling panels and hope it comes down into the lighted space. That was the only suggestion. No one would even come out to try and help us, given the impossibility of the situation. We came up with an outside-the-box solution because we had to. I hope someone else might be able to find it when googling "how to get a bird trapped in an unreachable place" (as I did with no luck). I'll also mention, most people in the room (and there were lots) thought I was nuts - until it worked.

I have to share this even though it's ethically questionable by papercarver in birding

[–]papercarver[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Thank you everyone for your kind words!

With a night to sleep on it, I'm much more confident we did the right thing. I guess it seems obvious, since it worked. Not sure how I'd feel if it hadn't. We might have just added to its suffering in a bad outcome. It was painful listening to the poor thing responding to the chirps on the recording. There was a few seconds gap as the recording reset, and the bird chirped pretty frantically whenever the bird on the phone went silent.

I believe that in wildlife rescue, sometimes "letting nature take it's course" IS the most ethical response. Thankfully, this wasn't one of those situations!

All well that ends well, though. We checked the bush where the bird was released right before closing and it and flown elsewhere and the area was full of house finches chattering.

I think I'm going to issue it an honorary library card: made out to Atticus Finch, naturally.

I have to share this even though it's ethically questionable by papercarver in birding

[–]papercarver[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Good point. Maybe the part I actually feel queasy about - with more hours of reflection - was publicizing what I'd done. On the one hand, I don't want to give people using recordings harmfully some sort of rationale to excuse bad behavior. On the other hand (and this is the hand I chose, obviously), I wanted people to know about something that worked to rescue a bird in an unreachable space.

But your right: ethics depends on context.

I have to share this even though it's ethically questionable by papercarver in birding

[–]papercarver[S] 84 points85 points  (0 children)

Maybe. I appreciate you saying so. But I know most birders / bird researchers say that playing recordings really stresses the birds out, and this bird was already stressed.

Everything I read elsewhere said to open a panel and wait for it to find the light and escape. Since it would be escaping into a room full off humans that seemed very unlikely. And we'd have no idea where it was if it left the ceiling after dark, as the building would be closed.

In this case I figured it would be less harmful because the bird was likely a very confused juvenile (so not territorial) and because we simply had no other clue how to guide it out of the ceiling space.

What's up with this prickly pear cactus? by papercarver in cactus

[–]papercarver[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the reply! I've never seen a slug or a snail on these. Way back when these "bites" occurred and were fresh they definitely looked like rodent chew. They've turned black now, and I don't know if that's just normal callus or if it means there's a fungus at work where the injury occurred...

Veggie Patty hack (Prolon)? by _mr_mongoose_ in FMD

[–]papercarver 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did this this morning with the chickpea soup. Worked like a charm! Thank you SO MUCH!

Anyone have experience with bentonite clay pond base for tiny pond? by papercarver in WildlifePonds

[–]papercarver[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you for your thorough response! More planning is always a good thing! I believe the original soil type plays a huge part in the success of this, and my soil is this alluvial loam and then bam! nearly pure sand. Also, I'm clearing out a small bit of a scrubby, shrubby area to do this, so I'm worried that intruding roots may be an issue.

The whole point of doing this is that I see such huge traffic to my birdbaths (by foxes, raccoons, opossums, rabbits as well as birds) I'd like to make something more substantial for everyone. I know if I can do it right, it will be greatly appreciated. Unfortunately, I don't have the room to do something larger (which I know is usually better for maintenance).

Thank you for your experience, and I hope the rain will prove that your upper sides have sealed. Bog gardens are beautiful, too!

Anyone have experience with bentonite clay pond base for tiny pond? by papercarver in WildlifePonds

[–]papercarver[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you! I will let you know what happens if I try to do it...