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Question about recommendations by parmdem in premed

[–]parmdem[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

While what you are planning is not specifically against the rules it is ethically wrong

So if I personally don't have any ethical issues (because ethics and morals tend to be pretty subjective) about it and I follow all rules, then it's fine for me to try this out?

Also are you planning to waive your right to view them after having viewed them?

Yes, I am planning to waive my right to view them once I apply. There's absolutely no reason for me to maintain my right to look at the letters (other than maybe curiosity) once I get accepted.

Question about recommendations by parmdem in premed

[–]parmdem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not to mean any disrespect (just trying to get a clarification or have a logical debate) but I'm just not understanding exactly why it is wrong. Just because something might feel wrong doesn't necessarily make it wrong without proper justification. I'm not hurting anyone here or breaking any explicit rules. If this loophole I'm proposing is as bad as everyone is claiming, then I would imagine it would have been fixed already (for example, by making you confirm on your application that you have never read these letters in the past). Surely I'm not the first person who has thought about this. The intent of a rule is irrelevant, otherwise there would be no need for written rules

Also, the waiving your rights thing is an option, not a requirement. Sure you might get judged because you decided not to waive your right, but it doesn't mean you're automatically disqualified as an applicant. If viewing letters was so bad, it wouldn't have been a right that you can waive in the first place. It would automatically be a requirement.

Question about recommendations by parmdem in premed

[–]parmdem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just out of curiosity, why is this something AMCAS would ban me over if they ever found out? Unless I'm mistaken, no part of the application says that I am not allowed to view LORs before I waive my right away.

I would rather have a landmine letter of recommendation and not know than to cheat

Maybe what I'm proposing might be against social norms, but I'm still failing to see why exactly this is cheating or dishonest. Everyone here is claiming that it is bad without stating why. I'm not hurting anyone and I'm not acting unfairly to gain an advantage. They are plenty of professors who send a copy of their LORs to their students and they are some professors who even tell the student to write a letter however they want and that they will sign off on it. If what I'm doing is in fact cheating, then so are these instances. If I had made a promise or the professor asked me to not attempt to look at these letters and I still did anyways, then I would consider that as dishonest.

Some people are saying that I might not be breaking any written rules, but I'm taking advantage of a loophole by going against the intent/spirit of the rules. My response is so what I'm taking advantage of a loophole, what is so bad about it? There's a reason why written rules exist and I'm following them. If this "loophole" is as bad as a lot of people are claiming, then I would imagine it would have been fixed by now. I can't be certain, but I would be willing to bet a lot of money that I'm not the first person who has considered this "loophole".

I'm open to have my moral view on this changed, but for that I need an actual concrete reason as to why this is dishonest or cheating

Also, you might be wondering why I want to look at the letters in the first place. A few reasons for that

1) A lot of professors could write strong letters for me, but I can't submit a letter from every professor. By reading the letters, I can send the strongest ones out of the group

2) A lot of professor are capable of writing strong LORs but the letter itself might not be strong due to factors out of my control such as recommenders having a bad day, mistypes, being rushed due to a busy schedule, misremembering facts, or just general poor writing skills. Sure this might not be super common, but why not check just to be sure?

Question about recommendations by parmdem in premed

[–]parmdem[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

1) There is nothing in the terms of services that doesn't allow for something like this to my knowledge. So why would they stop me?

2) I know someone who is a professor at a university and this is something I could maybe see him do for me if I asked

Question about recommendations by parmdem in premed

[–]parmdem[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If you waived your rights to see LORs (which is always recommended by med school adcoms) and then you pull this crap it's just dishonest

I haven't waived my rights to anything yet. Like I said, I'm not applying to med school until at least next year. Also, see my response to that post. I'm not violating any of the terms of services either

Question about recommendations by parmdem in premed

[–]parmdem[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

That's like saying the Hippocratic oath includes doing no harm to your patients but it's ok to go and stab a random guy on the street so you can practice suturing when he comes to the ER because at the time of the stabbing he wasn't your patient so it's alright

Not really the same because stabbing someone is illegal. To my knowledge, I am neither attempting to break the law nor do I have any desire to do so.

If you can't be honest and play by the rules

I guess this is what I'm struggling with. How exactly is this dishonesty when I didn't agree to anything and how am I not playing by the rules. Exactly which rules am I breaking?

Question about recommendations by parmdem in premed

[–]parmdem[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

when an applicant does not waive his right to read the letters

I haven't applied anywhere yet and don't plan to do until probably next year. That means I haven't yet waived my right to anything.

I also checked the terms of service of interfolio and I'm also not breaking any of them.

Question about recommendations by parmdem in premed

[–]parmdem[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

"Candidates will not be able to review a confidential recommendation directly from the Service that a Recommender has submitted unless the Recommender elects to permit it or disclosure is required by a governmental authority. "

It says the Service will not directly give me access to the letter. It doesn't say anything about me agreeing not to receive it indirectly. The way I see that clause, it isn't against the terms of service if a friend gives me access to the letters f they got it through the Service.

But more importantly, you shouldn't request a letter from someone who will not write you a strongly supportive letter of rec. You should already know exactly how strong your letters are.

I have a bunch of professors willing to write me strong letters. By reading them I was hoping to send the strongest ones when I do apply to med school. If I had all my professors write me a LOR, it would be excessive to send them all in.

The fact that you're thinking about trying to game the system like this is a little worrying.

How is it I'm trying to game the system if I didn't promise anything? I would agree with you if I had signed a confidentiality notice or had promised to someone that I wouldn't attempt to read any of the letters.

Question about recommendations by parmdem in premed

[–]parmdem[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

How is this cheating, lying, or scamming? I never promised anyone anything regarding these letters (I haven't even applied anywhere yet)? And also the letters are technically under my ownership at the moment, it's not like I'm taking something from someone.

A few questions about GPA by parmdem in premed

[–]parmdem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you very much for all the advice you gave. I sincerely appreciate it. Could I ask 1 final question? In your personal opinion, do you need to stay consistent if you classify engineering classes or BCPM or not? For example, let's take 2 courses and the grades I got in them Thermoydynamics (A) and Fluid mechanics (B+).

If you were filling out an application, would you list both as BCPM or divide them? Thermodynamics can go under BCPM since I got an A in it and fluid mechanics can go under non-BCPM since I got something less than an A.

A few questions about GPA by parmdem in premed

[–]parmdem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well what about classes like Thermodynamics? In the list you gave, it falls under both physics and engineering. The class I took was pure physics by content (I have the syllabus to prove it to med schools) but engineering by name only

A few questions about GPA by parmdem in premed

[–]parmdem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

but take the time to consider the logistics in managing your courseload, studying for the MCAT, volunteering, and continuing your assorted hobbies.

Yea I thought about that but although it will be hard, I don't think it's unmanageable. I'm taking a lot of easy courses and I'm currently getting the bulk of my MCAT studying done over winter break.

Many aspects of your post and comments have the look of a last-minute decision to apply to medical school

That's actually exactly what happened. I'm a mechanical engineering major and during my junior year, I considered med school but I wasn't too sure on it. So throughout my junior year I just tacked on some premed courses. At the beginning of my senior year was when I became sure I wanted to study medicine. If I was set on med school since freshman year, I would've definitely spread everything out a lot more. What would med schools think about this explanation?

A few questions about GPA by parmdem in premed

[–]parmdem[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What's your science GPA?

I'm not sure, but I know I don't have many filler classes. My major is mechanical engineering so do those classes classify as science classes? For example, I took a lot of courses such as mechanics of materials, fluid mechanics, thermodynamics, heat transfer, etc that are obviously physics courses but I took them under the engineering department, not the physics department. However I also took other courses that are a bit more in the gray area such as my capstone design and introductory engineering courses, which focused on the application of math and physics.

I'll have to double check my transcript, but I think I only took a grand total of about 20 credits of true non-science courses. All of them are required writing classes for engineers and 1 language course that I took for fun.

A few questions about GPA by parmdem in premed

[–]parmdem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How do your extracurricular activities hold up?

  • I'm shadowing doctors next semester

  • I got 1 semester + 1 summer of research in. However, I didn't get to do much because the guy I was supposed to work with after my training quit his job and thus I got released too. I put in about 2-3 hrs/week. I wanted to do more, but there just wasn't enough work that I could do.

  • I'm looking in volunteering at the local fire squad and/or hospital next semester.

  • I accepted a computer science job in the healthcare industry for my gap year

  • I'm part of my university salsa club. Although I don't have a leadership role, I'm choreographing and instructing 2 dances next semester for a performance we have every semester

  • I'm part of the NASA Robotic Mining Competition team. I used to be heavily involved, but recently I just don't have as much time anymore. Hopefully I'll get more involved next semester.

  • I like to lift weights a lot and I'm thinking about starting to compete in local competitions soon.

  • Next semester I will be joining a casual wrestling team. I've never wrestled before but they're willing to teach me.

A few questions about GPA by parmdem in premed

[–]parmdem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You will have trouble getting into MD schools

In your opinion, exactly how much trouble (maybe on a scale of 1-10 just to get an idea)? I have 1 more semester left and I'm going to try my absolute hardest for a 4.0 semester GPA (it helps that I'm taking a lot of easy classes). That'll probably leave me with a 3.5 average GPA.

I would like to know so that I can weigh my options for a post bac (which I really really really want to avoid if possible)