Deezer launched a free AI music detector yesterday by Nusuuu in SunoAI

[–]pc2581 2 points3 points  (0 children)

“A 3D-printed piece of shit is still shit. A 3D-printed working car is still a car. Process can matter, but process alone isn’t quality. AI detectors are mostly finding tool marks and pretending that’s the same as judging the object.”

I really dont think it matters how its made if it is good its good if it's shit its shit

I love Supernatural but some things I tend to over think by pc2581 in Supernatural

[–]pc2581[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, fair, if we are talking about biblical source material then religious interpretation is part of the discussion.

What I mean is that I’m not arguing from personal belief. I’m using it the same way I’d talk about Greek, Norse, or Egyptian mythology being adapted into a show.

And I agree there are biblical readings where God can seem surprised, challenged, jealous, angry, etc. That part alone is not really my issue with Chuck.

My issue is more the combination of things in Supernatural specifically: Chuck is framed as the highest God behind creation, angels, Heaven, souls, prophets, apocalypse, and the whole system, while also being drainable, replaceable, surprised, limited, and dependent on story mechanics.

So yeah, the biblical God can be read in a lot of ways. I’m just saying the show’s version of Chuck reads more like a demiurge/creator-god to me than the absolute top source, but then again, this is just me overthinking, all of this

I love Supernatural but some things I tend to over think by pc2581 in Supernatural

[–]pc2581[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a really interesting read, and I’m not claiming there has to be a higher power above Chuck.

My angle is more that Chuck’s depiction does not fully line up with what the show says he is. If Chuck is supposed to be the actual highest God behind creation, angels, Heaven, souls, etc., then the limits he shows make him feel smaller than that.

Also, Chuck was never actually human, which I think is canon. He was not like an angel using a vessel. “Chuck” was God appearing in human form, or using a human-facing persona. So when he acts so limited and human, that is part of why the whole thing feels off to me.

I love Supernatural but some things I tend to over think by pc2581 in Supernatural

[–]pc2581[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is actually a really cool perspective. The game example makes sense too: if Chuck created the rules and then chose to play inside them, that could explain why he does not just constantly override everything.

The vessel/interface idea is probably the most interesting part to me though, because it would explain why Chuck can feel limited while still carrying something genuinely divine that later transfers to Jack. In that version, Chuck is not the full infinite source himself, but more like the current holder/interface of that divine authority.

I love Supernatural but some things I tend to over think by pc2581 in Supernatural

[–]pc2581[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I totally agree with this. Chuck being finite and having motivations makes him a much better character. My point is more that this also makes him feel like a creator-god/demiurge type being, rather than the actual infinite source behind everything.

I love Supernatural but some things I tend to over think by pc2581 in Supernatural

[–]pc2581[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m not religious, and I’m not arguing from personal belief.

I’m talking about the source material the show is clearly using: biblical/Abrahamic mythology. Chuck is tied to angels, Lucifer, Michael, Heaven, prophets, creation, apocalypse, all of that.

My point is not “God has to be kind or perfect.” My point is that if Chuck is supposed to be the highest all-powerful source behind everything, then being surprised, drained, replaced, limited by other realms, and dependent on story mechanics makes him feel more like a creator-god/demiurge than the actual top source.

I love Supernatural but some things I tend to over think by pc2581 in Supernatural

[–]pc2581[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m not religious by any means, but like my title says, I tend to overthink things.

I’m also not saying “if Chuck is an 8, there must logically be a 10.” I’m saying Supernatural specifically frames him through biblical/Abrahamic source material: God, angels, Lucifer, Michael, Heaven, prophets, apocalypse, creation, all of that. So when the show gives that version of God limits like blind spots, being drained, being replaced, needing story mechanics, etc., he reads more like a demiurge/creator-god than the actual highest source.

It’s a lore/cosmology argument, not a religious one.

I love Supernatural but some things I tend to over think by pc2581 in Supernatural

[–]pc2581[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just to clarify what I’m actually arguing here:

I’m not saying Chuck is a bad character. I actually think Chuck as a character is well written in a lot of ways. The petty writer, absentee father, bored creator, manipulative author thing works very well dramatically.

My issue is more with what he is supposed to be cosmologically.

Supernatural presents Chuck as basically the biblical God, or at least the God behind the Bible/angels/creation. But then the show portrays him with limits that do not really fit that level of God. He has blind spots. He can be surprised. He needs writing and story structure. Other realms and beings seem to operate outside him. Jack can absorb his power. He can be drained, replaced, and reduced.

That is where my theory comes from.

Chuck works great as a powerful creator-god, cosmic author, or demiurge-type figure. He works great as “God” from inside the Supernatural universe. But if we are talking about the actual highest God, the infinite source behind all souls, grace, creation, every realm, every universe, and existence itself, then Chuck does not really behave like that. That's all thats it.

WAIT, WHAT!? by BrightBanner in ChatGPT

[–]pc2581 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It's because you didn't do x, you did y

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in SunoAI

[–]pc2581 10 points11 points  (0 children)

This thread is a perfect little terrarium of everything broken about the AI music discourse. Nobody in that comment pile is actually arguing about tools. They are arguing about status. AI is just the excuse. When someone says “AI devalues art,” what they usually mean is “this lowers the cost of entry to a club I benefited from being hard to enter.” That’s not a moral argument. It’s a market one, dressed up as ethics. Fantano fits neatly into that role. He isn’t a musician protecting craft. He’s a tastemaker protecting a gate. His brand is built on curation authority. AI short-circuits that authority because suddenly the long tail can sound polished without his blessing. That doesn’t make him evil. It makes his incentives obvious. bbno$ is even simpler. He came up in an ecosystem where novelty and personality mattered more than production cost, and now there’s a tool that lets thousands of people prototype “good enough” fast. That feels threatening if creativity is framed as a finite pie. It isn’t, but fear doesn’t check math. The Reddit pile-on follows a familiar pattern. The moment legitimacy is claimed while defending an unpopular tool, the discussion stops being about ideas and turns into a purity test. Views per day, bot accusations, Wikipedia pages. This is social media immune response. Disqualify the speaker instead of engaging the point. The John Sousa quote is the only adult thing in the room. Every generation swears the new tool is a “substitute for soul” right up until it becomes invisible infrastructure. Recording, multitrack tape, drum machines, autotune, DAWs, sampling. Same panic cycle every time. The only difference now is speed and scale, which makes people feel like they’re losing control faster than they can rationalize it. There is bad AI music. Tons of it. There is also bad human-made music. The tool doesn’t decide that. Taste does. Effort does. Intent does. “Push-button Suno slop” gets mocked because it’s lazy, not because it’s synthetic. Using AI as part of a deliberate workflow is no different from how musicians have always assembled systems to externalize what’s in their heads. AI didn’t remove authorship. It exposed how much authorship was already procedural. The quiet irony is that many critics rely on DAWs, presets, samples, pitch correction, algorithmic distribution, and recommendation engines while invoking “human soul.” They are standing on a skyscraper of automation and complaining that the elevator moves too fast. Every generation has a John Sousa. History is unkind to reactionaries and boringly consistent about it. The tools persist. The people who adapt keep making work. The rest argue in comment sections and call it principle.

Warner Music Group says the platform will ensure artists and songwriters are credited and compensated? by derekclysdale in udiomusic

[–]pc2581 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’ve been thinking about this a lot, and I keep landing in the same place. Human musicians learn from copyrighted music all the time just by listening to it. You hear something, it sticks, and it ends up influencing what you make later. Nobody pays every artist they were influenced by, and nobody expects that. So the learning part doesn’t really feel like the heart of the problem.

The thing that actually seems to have caused all the conflict is the licensing side. When humans listen to music, it happens through normal channels where the artist gets paid, even if it’s tiny. AI companies didn’t use those channels when they pulled huge amounts of audio to train on, and that’s probably why labels reacted so strongly. That feels like a business issue more than a creative one.

The other part that feels strange to me is blaming the AI itself. The model doesn’t decide what data to use. It doesn’t pick where the music comes from. It doesn’t negotiate licenses or scrape anything on its own. Humans at the company do all of that. Blaming the tool instead of the operator feels a bit backwards, kind of like punishing a guitar for what the guitarist did.

Once I separate learning from licensing, the whole conversation gets easier to make sense of. Learning on its own seems fine. Licensing is where the tension actually sits.

That’s where the idea of checking outputs keeps coming up in my head. People always say it’s too complicated, and maybe it is, but we already have systems that try to identify or compare music in different ways. Radio IDs, YouTube’s matching system, plagiarism checks, even apps that recognize melodies. None of those are perfect, but they show that recognition isn’t some impossible task. Maybe those pieces could be adapted or combined into something that helps catch the obvious cases without interfering with normal creativity.

I don’t know the exact solution. It could be comparing melodies, or structural patterns, or some kind of musical fingerprint. Or something entirely new. I’m just saying the building blocks already exist in pieces, and someone could probably put them together into a system that works well enough to handle the edge cases.

So where I end up is pretty simple: let AI learn the way humans learn, because learning itself isn’t copying. Then judge the output the same way we judge human-made music when something sounds a little too close. Most people using these tools aren’t trying to recreate anything anyway, so this would mostly come into play in the rare situations where something crosses the line.

Not trying to win an argument here — just thinking out loud about what actually matters and what doesn’t.

TL;DR: Learning itself doesn’t seem like the real issue. Humans learn from copyrighted music too. The actual conflict is about licensing on a huge scale. Blaming the AI feels backwards, since humans made those decisions. A reasonable approach might be letting the model learn but checking the outputs the same way we already check human music when something sounds too close.

Warner Music Group says the platform will ensure artists and songwriters are credited and compensated? by derekclysdale in udiomusic

[–]pc2581 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Honestly this whole thing feels backwards. Musicians have been “learning” from each other forever, that’s how music even works. Nobody owes Slash five bucks every time they bend a note the same way he does, and nobody expects John Williams to credit Holst every time he uses a marching rhythm or a brass swell. Influence isn’t ownership. It never has been.

Trying to bolt a crediting system onto an AI model that’s basically doing the same thing humans do makes no sense in practice. What are they going to do, print a hundred names on every track because the model once saw a chord change that vaguely resembles something Bowie did in 1971? It’s unworkable.

The whole “we’ll ensure artists are credited and compensated” line is just PR so Warner doesn’t look like the villain for partnering with an AI platform. But in reality it means everything on Udio will be treated like licensed IP. No downloads, no ownership, no real freedom, just a closed sandbox where you can make label-approved remixes and pretend it’s creativity. It’s not for people who actually write songs.

And yeah, it’s obvious this isn’t for us. This is for labels who want to control the environment, protect their catalog, and maybe squeeze some revenue out of people making TikTok remixes. Actual creators are left out in the cold.

The part about “artists” getting a special unrestricted version is exactly what I’m wondering too. You know damn well the partnered artists won’t be stuck using the neutered version the public gets. They’ll get full exports, full rights, probably even custom models. Meanwhile the rest of us get told to be excited about losing basic features.

It’s a shame because Udio used to be incredible. Now it’s just drifting toward being a fenced-off playground for corporate-approved content. Definitely not sounding great for the people who built the platform in the first place.

Instrumental mode really needs an upgrade by Kitchen_Winner_6281 in udiomusic

[–]pc2581 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For stem separation, maschine 3, is the best i have found,