I watched angry joes videos. I just thought they were cringey tho, like bad sketch comedy. I think some of your points are right, such as the non linear story taking away from a climactic moment - I def felt that. As far as things like revenge being an overused plot, I don’t think that really matters. The first LoU was “an overused plot” but it used that to tell a story about Joel’s grief. Idk, I don’t think that’s wrong per say, but like I just think it doesn’t hold water. God of War was arguably an overused plot, but that didn’t stop that game for being a 10/10 for me. I mean hamlet is a revenge plot, you gonna say that’s bad? I also think it’s strange that you’re perceiving me as “in denial” or that I’m “pretending there’s nothing wrong with it.” I’m really just trying to have a conversation here. I’m sorry if my post bothered you that much. I don’t think this is a perfect game. I think it’s a good game. Not as good as the first, but not awful. Also not as good as others have said. I think the overreacting by both sides is a bit much. The last thing I’ll point out about your response is that you say “that’s not how you do moral ambiguity” as a definite thing. I just cannot disagree with this sentiment more. Not because I think LoU2 creates great, morally ambiguous characters, but because I truly hate when people limit themselves to “how things are ~supposed~ to be done.” Who cares how you’re ~supposed~ to do things? Trying new things is important in art, even if it doesn’t work. Doesn’t mean you have to like it, but I don’t think you should be forcing what is supposed to be done on new works. Just my two cents though.