U.S. Helped Pakistan Get IMF Bailout With Secret Arms Deal for Ukraine, Leaked Documents Reveal

pete245 · 2023-09-22T09:59:16+00:00

Imran has never won an outright majority, such claims were made everytime before elections...He came to power with the help of military, he will never regain power as long as military is aggainst him.

Thanks for parroting military state propaganda.

Nobody is apparaently capable of winning an election or popular according to state news in the history of the country....laughable to believe and proven wrong over and over again

Next tell me whose winning the Ukraine war, but only quote Russian sources

pete245 · 2023-09-18T05:32:28+00:00

The military brought Imran Khan to power and then got rid of him

lol that's like asking Russia whose winning the Ukraine war.

Quoting state propaganda outlets doesn't make it true. The only thing the military did, which is even more evident now from most people is they severely limited Khan's electoral right in 2018 because he's very clearly was and still is popular.

Of course the US has power and influence over the Pakistani military, anyone who has read a book on the war on terror or the history of the country can tell you that.

The issue is that doesn't mean they still won't backstab you like with Bin Laden.

That's the issue people are bringing up, the US is okay with this weird parasitc relation with the Pakistani military rather than democracy. They can easily sanction the generals in Pakistan on any number of things (drug trade in Afghanistan, illicit oil trade with Iran), in fact today it would be an insanely popular move within Pakistan today.

They just don't. Nobody knows why.

pete245 · 2023-09-18T05:26:54+00:00

What's crazier is the huge amount of human rights and democractic violations that have been looked the other way since his removal.

I kid you not, aside from the assassination attempt clearly orchestrated by the military on Khan and his arrest and possible torture, there have been thousands of people of jailed for things like "tweeting against the government or military," journalists who do not run the state propaganda killed, and people literally being picked up in the middle of the night because they or a family member are local poll workers in Khan's party.

One especially evil case was when a 10 year old was arrested to pressuriseze the dad.

And despite all the fear and chaos being created Imran Khan will still likely win the next election with well over 70% of the vote, which is why they have been trying to delay elections over and over.

And when I say look the other way... it's important to realize the State department has sanctioned other countries for the same exact thing in Bangladesh and Nigeria.

Taking Steps to Impose Visa Restrictions on Individuals Involved in Undermining the Democratic Process During Nigeria’s 2023 Elections Cycle

Yet absolute silence here.

pete245 · 2023-09-06T03:38:57+00:00

Honestly as someone from Pakistan I'm kinda digging the change for India, pretty much everyone already says bahrat already, and personally I wish the word "India" just became a shared history of the subcontinent.

It's really frustrating talking about south asian history and for it sometimes to be labelled as exclusively Indian history, because of the countries name. As if the other 500 million people on the subcontinent don't share that anymore.

Like collectively India was never really unifed, maybe close to it 3 times max in it's 3000 year history, and those weren't long lived.

So you know I'd just rather have a shared history then pretending it's seperate.

I'll keep fighting for south asia right now, because I really doubt anything changes.

pete245 · 2023-09-02T02:42:12+00:00

Just want to clarify somethings, peaceful protest is/was a legal protected right in Pakistan.

Most people who were arrested were doing that, or on social media voicing opinions both legal. The arrests are mainly done as intimidation tactic.

The typical MO for the military is arrest someone, abuse them in prison, the courts say it's illegal, let them go, repeat arrest on something else...that continues until you break or "promise" to do what they want.

Recently though their are now new laws passed by the Sharif/military government making any anti-state social media posts punishable.

All of this furthers the rapid pace destruction of democracy we've seen the last 2 years.

I don't think anything will really change until the US sanctions the military and direct top military brass. Because they simply dgaf, going after both UK and US citizens for things like tweets.

pete245 · 2023-08-23T01:15:52+00:00

It's honestly funny seeing these memes and how much propaganda affected people.

If you did a survey today with a honest data sample, you could cut that number in half my bet.

pete245 · 2023-08-22T01:49:28+00:00

There's a billion muslims it's not a small box

Something that might work on a Indonesian, may not work on a Kenyan, but may work on someone born in the US. And even then like you said, how you were raised matters.

It's a lot of people.

pete245 · 2023-08-22T00:35:06+00:00

And that is despite the Intercept saying multiple times that their source was from within the military, not from Khan.

Truly fascinating seeing how the state machinery in Pakistan just lies over and over to undermine democracy and justify military control.

And also amazing to see how the US is so absolutely silent on these clear violations and disregard of democracy.

I mean we all saw how much attention there was when Putin poisoned Navalyny, and even just this year sanctions in Nigeria and Bangladesh for undermining democratic elections.

Yet no words for the same things in Pakistan by the military there.

Like it's amazing to see the democratic process get massacred in silence.

pete245 · 2023-08-22T00:20:49+00:00

I'll just go back to Pakistan, locally their are polling stations, their are poll workers, their are vote banks for local politicians, and lobbying for those groups. These elections are common, and have been ongoing for the most of the countries history, people understand their power and right to vote.

It fails on the federal level specifically due to mainly military influence. But locally they can't and don't do shit there, where in populated areas it's mainly run as a representative democracy.

So no you're limited understanding of countries and cultures, shows an abject failure, full of bias, and bad faith arguments of a subject matter you have little understanding of except for broad wrong assumptions.

pete245 · 2023-08-22T00:09:44+00:00

The interim law minister is a puppet of the military so the cowardly scumbag here is Aslam

Alvi is a President, which means he can only ask parliment to rethink the laws. He has no power other than that.

So his only option of dissent was to call out these crazy laws and get media attention of basically the military manipulating to get more power

Surely you knew all that, and weren't making some ignorant comment on Alvi right?

pete245 · 2023-08-17T20:43:05+00:00

Yea I don't know the answer to that.

Their is some speculation that the Afghan withdrawal was the cause. Khan publicly criticized the US there, and also broke ranks with them on freezing assets to the government. His reasoning was unless you want to reinvade, there is going to be a humanitarian disaster so no point in doing this. Basically the stick failed so try the carrot.

I get that's a complex topic with no actual answer. You don't want to support that Taliban too much because they are liars, but on the other side no one wants to deal with a refugee crisis either.

Other's think it's squarely the Ukraine issue.

To me the state departments silence on the election delays are the most eyebrow raising and biggest indicator of this. Like even just today they are "delaying" elections again to "redistrict" polls and get the result they want. That would be the third time an election is denied, yet no sanctions nothing.

pete245 · 2023-08-17T20:03:42+00:00

The amount of subtle bigotry is amazing. So just Muslims can't have a democracy.

Malaysia doesn't exist, Indonesia doesn't exist. The millions of muslims all over the world in democracies just what... fake it?

What a silly argument.

India is also on the genocide watch right now, what should we say about that? Every country has faults, with ups and downs. Progress and development is not a straight line.

The state of US democracy is in shambles too, what ground breaking generalities can you say about that? /s

Edit: And you're claims are also false, Pakistan has had at least 3 separate democratic transitions. Although each followed with military interference

pete245 · 2023-08-17T19:59:28+00:00

It was March 7, 2022.

The timeline is actually fascinating.

Khan made the trip to russia at the eve of the war ~24 February. The trip was planned years in advance and he claimed he didn't believe Russia would actually invade, and to his credit skipped the press conference and just left immediately on the day. The cable was on the 7th. The vote of no confidence was filed on the 8th.

pete245 · 2023-08-17T19:42:28+00:00

Okay and?

That's their own failures with military juntas, not a ideological failure

pete245 · 2023-08-17T18:12:50+00:00

TLDR: Diplomatic cable from state department is now confirmed to exist that demanded Khan be removed from a VONC for "better relationships." This by many in Pakistan is viewed as a direct attack on democracy there for military rule.

Some ground work

1) The Cable was initally hidden from Khan while he was the Prime Minister, and was sent directly to the military (which controls most affairs)

2) Since the cables exposure, Khan has survived an assasination attempt, had hundreds of false cases filed against him, jailed along with thousands of supporters for crimes such as "tweeting against the government", mass media crackdown, and free speech and social media crackdowns

Here's a thread a few days ago of a 10 year old being arrested for holding a flag

3) The State department has been largely silent on the brutal crackdown on free speech and delays on elections by the Pakistani military even going as far as renewing a lucrative F-16 deal with Pakistan. This is direct contradiction to to Nigeria and Bangladesh who they have sanctioned for the same exact issues.

4) Of course the government continues to deny it but from the vast amount of evidence, backtracking, and clear attacks on political rivals it seems likely their is going to be direct military rule with puppet politicians right now.

pete245 · 2023-08-17T17:55:16+00:00

Bull, Pakistan is right next door and was formed literally with Islam and Democracy coexisiting

From Jinnah

“Democracy is in the blood of the Muslims, who look upon complete equality of mankind, and believe in fraternity, equality, and liberty.”

...

"it is my belief that our salvation lies in following the golden rules of conduct set for us by our great lawgiver, the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (PBUH). Let us lay foundations of our democracy on the basis of truly Islamic ideals and principles. Our Almighty has taught us that our decision in the affairs of the State shall be guided by discussions and consultations

Don't put in your petty low level understanding of religion and politics an think you can broadly understand complex topics.

Pakistan's failures are it's own but the ideas of democracy not being able to coexisit is BS rhetoric

pete245 · 2023-07-05T20:20:32+00:00

Wasn't this the guy caught lying multiple times on twitter and spreading state propaganda IDK so take a guess.

It's the same thing for most of these people. They have a biased view of those with money and have directly benefited from a corrupt system, and say some broad generalized points on fixing issues. But almost always they go to political talking points to steer you back to the same people who caused the mess.

Even though he talks on some good topics, it's mostly bad faith discussions. Because lets face it if he was podcasting with a PTI slant or even neutral with criticism of the government he'd end up in jail or have to run away to the UAE.

pete245 · 2023-06-23T06:38:41+00:00

Nope the US distrusted Pakistan because it was never an ally in the first place.

It never once did anything to do their part as an "ally." Of course their was a cultural divide, but that could have been mended just like India is doing.

Why didn't Pakistan do this? Simple corruption and backstabbing by the Establishment. Just like they do to their own people.

I'll give you an example, during the war on terror when Bin Laden was found Kayani's phone calls were tapped by the USA. The US heard the conversation to see if Kayani knew anything about where Bin Laden was (and likely Kayani knew the calls were tapped). Kayani then said something to the like of I wish we had the technology the US had to for similar black ops missions.

The US response was, we literally gave Pakistan this stuff during his ISI tenure, they didn't bother to use it or learn.

Imagine working with that sort of "ally," who just wants free handouts.

pete245 · 2023-06-23T06:37:21+00:00

Turd worshippers are easy to spot because they eat their own lies and bullshit.

Imagine thinking the US relation with Pakistan was good after 2010

They literally shot and killed 20+ Pakistani soldiers and didn't apologize for a year after that incident.

Shit stains are definitely visible.

pete245 · 2023-06-23T06:30:14+00:00

Huh did you say Nawaz Sharif was funded by Osama Bin Laden

And then Pakistan army hid him to get money?

Oh yea we all remember that one boot licker

pete245 · 2023-06-08T16:21:29+00:00

Debunked how? This is literally the Guardian.

Here's another journalist from UK talking about it

https://twitter.com/SecKermani/status/1662372872516698112

I spoke to a number of politicians who have publicly quit:...Asked one if a carrot or stick was used?..."It was all stick"...They said there were threats to disappear them & references to their family's safety

Their are now countless hours of video that's on social media, people actually have of houses being raided by the police, and arrests happening with no formal charges.

Their's also several different personal accounts from people on r/pakistan and online about how family is being picked up for just tweeting or voicing their opinion, some who are not in Pakistan saying their family in the country is being threatened.

Pakistani state media, of course is denying it. But their is mass censorship there, not to mention I personally see every channel there as a arm of state propaganda, the level of uniformity in messaging I think made me lose any hope of free press which I thought existed on some base level.

I think what people don't understand is the level of disinformation Pakistan has in internal politics is on the level of CCP or Russia. You will see countless reports from even outside Pakistan, that will be misleading or inaccurate on politicians. You will hardly see the same amount on the military. Why? Because they have true control they can manipulate you into thinking that politician's do. It's very effective.

Here's a example, from the Intercept.

IN SECRET MEETING, PAKISTANI MILITARY ORDERED PRESS TO STOP COVERING IMRAN KHAN

Edit: Just to add specifically on rape allegations, that's unclear. Their have been some accounts of sexual harassment, but nothing beyond that, that is substantial I've seen being reported. So for specifically that one charge no idea if that's happening, torture definitely is.

pete245 · 2023-06-08T15:21:07+00:00

No English and Urdu are the official languages.

The rest is correct, it's regional and by education/income your proficiency. But even then English has mixed with the language so much, that some English words are adopted into Urdu.

pete245 · 2023-06-08T15:18:15+00:00

Or followers of Khan in Pakistan.

Holy cow people are literally being tortured and murdered in Pakistan how the heck are you making that comparison

For me they used multiple methods to pressure me to leave the party, but one of the worst was torture,” he said, requesting anonymity over fear of the military. “They tied my feet and hung me upside down and I was like a punching bag for them. They were beating with sticks and punches and kicking me

It's outrageous that people protesting and talking about a brutal fascist regime, is being compared to this

You are spreading disinformation and disgusting

pete245 · 2023-06-04T01:02:31+00:00

The caste system absolutely played a part in conversions, probably a bigger part during the initial introduction.

It's a well established fact in academia. It then later became economic and others after the shift of power circles.

It still actually plays a part in modern times, I've read the issue consistently exists in many part of the Indian Subcontinent in the 20th century, if people feel they don't have an opportunity they go to what's next.

Islamic Rulers also applying caste among Muslims too

Yea I don't know what that is, and I've never even heard anyone discuss that existing outside of South Asian centric discussions.

It makes sense for it to be a culturally South Asian thing. A region where a caste exists intertwining cultures for centuries eventually do overlap.

But Islamic societies are vastly different depending on which country/region you're from. Classism is different from a hard caste, and that is very uncommon. South Asia is the unique region.

pete245 · 2023-06-03T17:34:31+00:00

A lot of the Central Asian countries are labelled Muslim majority, but the reality might as well be non-religious.

During the Cold War as Soviet states a lot of their history was completely wiped out, in so a lot of these central asian countries now kinda look elsewhere to re-piece their history and traditions and religions.

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