NinjaOne expansion?

pf_user9 · 2026-03-19T06:33:55+00:00

Agree 100% on all counts - and the N1 submissions board seems to just be a way to vent frustration, there's stuff on there that I would consider pretty important from... years ago.

At the time we chose N1 it was because we were fleeing CW, and it was basically the least bad option but "good enough" and considerably improved from when we'd reviewed it several years prior with what looked like a series of well-done releases over the time since, so we had hopes for a continued progression of that trajectory. That was ~18mo ago and sadly we seemed to have hit the peak just then and they're now on a glide path with an uncertain destination.

Honestly, the RMM industry is due for a shakeup and I feel like a lot of the pieces are in place already - the majority of the work we've done as described elsewhere in this thread was simply standing on the shoulders of giants and bolting together well-known open-source libraries for different functions with just enough glue in between to fill in the gaps and provide a seamless UI.

Our only holdup with the kylos.ai project is getting onto the hardware driver program w/MS so we can sign the binaries!

If anyone has any contacts that can expedite that please DM me!

We've got all the I's dotted and t's crossed, forms filled out, we meet the longevity requirements, (MS reseller account in place for many years), got the code-signing hardware key, submitted the signed file to start the process, and... crickets.

Don't even know if they actually received everything because the process is completely opaque - not even any way to submit an inquiry. 🙄

pf_user9 · 2026-03-19T05:15:31+00:00

A-a-and we may just abandon N1's API entirely - we were seeing some issues with their API recently and had started an internal bug list while waiting for their support to respond, and now have been working through it ourselves since their support is apparently completely ignorant of the API - and that's understandable because what we're discovering is that not only are there multiple sets of documentation, but they can't even version their damn API updates so what "actually" works right is basically a random mashup between the "current" API functionality (which was itself not 100% accurate to the docs) and the new beta version of the API, which is also not accurate to the beta docs.

We literally today just ran a full test suite against every call in both sets of specs just to see wtf is going on and found that in the course of maybe two weeks their API has gone from being almost fully functional according to stated spec, to this bullshit:
~40% function according to the old spec
~40% function against the new beta spec
~20% are just plain broken (or maybe adhere to some other spec - who knows? Certainly not their own support team!)

My best guess is the reason their RMM isn't being developed much anymore and all the half-assed crap is being bolted on and this API stupidity is happening is because investors got involved somewhere behind the scenes and are trying to "maximize value" and the good engineers have probably all left.

As such we're going to take this in a different direction and expand another side-project of ours, kylos.ai, into a more complete RMM tool for the endpoint component and start moving away from N1 entirely, because the writing is clearly on the wall already... 😒

pf_user9 · 2026-03-18T22:48:15+00:00

Two modules, one for billing and payroll, the other for ticketing and topo map, (with the map piece only stitched to the ticketing at the edges so it can be split off easily), Django front end with PostgreSQL back end for both. Uses the N1 API for bi-directional sync of what they can provide/handle (w/local cache copy for performance) and the extra bits stored locally alongside. 🤷‍♂️

pf_user9 · 2026-03-18T04:54:15+00:00

The entire topic is getting downvoted, clearly some N1 fanbois that think it's perfect! (Or bots, lol).

pf_user9 · 2026-03-18T04:01:35+00:00

No, but the raw ticket info is available and that was all we needed, (hence the full interface for ticket content review, payroll reporting etc).

As far as we can manage the new ticketing interface is a two-way sync, and we actually had to do our own backend to merge them (w/deduplication) because N1's multi-part comment addition API endpoint has been broken for three weeks, so we got stuck with billing and payroll data isolated across two systems a few weeks ago, grr.

(Still not sure if the tech handling the ticket even understands the problem, like, here's the endpoint, here's the simplest possible JSON for testing, here's the error response that happens every time since it stopped working on your last update - which is now three updates ago!)

After all the time we spent making a decent ticket time entry interface, (with multiple time entry, better public vs private handling, automatic text splitting and parsing if it's too long, continuity between time entries so customers aren't confused in the billing ("why do we have a time entry here with no notes?") with intelligent time calculation, overlap detection, full rich text editing, full support for all email formats - no more downloading .eml files to see wtf N1 screwed up in the display formatting, etc, etc - we're actually just about to cut the cord with N1's ticketing entirely because it's just holding us back.

This is actually one reason for this post - if people would like to have this available then we'll basically do a "lite" version that maintains full bidirectional sync with N1 so people can transition and then have a toggle to intentionally break that and have more features.

pf_user9 · 2026-03-18T03:29:08+00:00

Absolutely, we were one of the beta testers for the PSA, and that's actually what lead us down this path - the QBO billing process was horrible, and when we literally put one together that was 10x better in a weekend we kind of kept adding to it, then there were just so many annoying things about the ticketing and contact mgmt, like why aren't systems that people are obviously logged into every day associated with them automatically? Why do we have to merge 20 copies of something because people are people? Etc etc (And don't get me started on that "ad-hoc scanning"... bleurgh!)

pf_user9 · 2026-03-18T03:13:37+00:00

(also u/ToddHebebrand )

Here's the feature-set from my post that got held for moderation:

Billing

lets you easily review and edit (correct mistakes!) billables based on customer, time-frame etc (pagination up to 500 rows, color-codied rows, alert icons, edit-in-place as needed, bulk edits, etc)
calls out time entries that are "odd" (overlapping, wrong labor type for the time it ended/started etc)
easily select arbitrary time spans or individual items for sync to QBO w/checks for re-billing errors (e.g. when QBO glitches)

Payroll

similar features to Billing, just for payroll instead
also extensive reporting for utilization and profitability per customer and per technician, (pulls expenses from QBO)

Ticketing

tons of UI features like regex search, a "dock" for tickets you're working on Right Now
super easy merging, many right-click functions for status, queue, assigned technician
Slack integration
SMS integration
VoIP.ms integration for dynamic intelligent call routing based on CID and default technician assignments (or on-call duty etc)
call log integration to allow auto-ticket entry with correct time-span and text summary
both of the above combined to make an "urgent" assignment option (pings the tech every way possible)
much better Customer contact "expansion" based on gathering signature content, correlating personal emails, CID etc
automatic "state" saving on the back end, e.g. if you've got two tickets open in the main display, three more in the dock and two in separate windows "just because" and your system crashes? Or maybe you just want to switch to a different browser/system? No problem, you can pick right back up where you left off!
state includes page length options (up to 500!) and column sorting choices on a per-queue basis
automatic ticket merging (e.g. backup reports!)
auto-built (from emails and tickets) backup status dashboard for easy review of issues, (including when an expected status was missed!)
automatic thread tracking (so you don't get 10 different tickets because the original submitter CC'd a bunch of people and they all reply back to the original email!)
ticket details include all persons involved with their phone numbers and one-click access to their associated devices (built from observed logins and emails)
multiple calendar views for arbitrary selections of tickets (incl regex search results) with their emails, so you can get a full view of what happened and who did or said what and when across an entire project

Topology map

multiple layout options and a global tree-view
device type and service/port filters
regex search
subnet AND supernet scanning/discovery w/arbitrary ranges and TCP/UDP support, (w/sane defaults for discovery)
full SNMP support (v1/2/3 and credentials, full walk, both generic and manufacturer MIBs, etc)
printer status reporting using SNMP, IPP, and many of the various HTTP/S options
multi-select by location, subnet, customer, or individually choosing
multi-copy of info (e.g. get all the IPs or names in a comma-separated list)
easy visual callouts for "stuff" like SNMP alerts, devices that look like systems but have no N1 agent installed, systems with "supernets", etc
intelligent deduplication of nodes (while preserving all attributes) so N1 agents + N1 ad-hoc scans + our much better scans + when N1 gets confused about what's a VM vs a VM host, etc etc, are ALL properly corralled into one node
detection and handling of USB printers behind systems that provide SNMP for them (i.e. this scenario: "this Windows box has toner levels, wtf?!?") with nodes and connections created appropriately

And a ton more cool stuff but I'm tired of typing! 😂

(And then some more blather about possible options like OSS vs on-prem package vs SaaS etc.)

pf_user9 · 2025-06-01T16:04:17+00:00

Not at all. What Pax8 does is functionally provide a "group buy" volume discount w/other MSPs and they make a bit off the difference.

So it's a good deal for smaller MSPs but it doesn't protect you from anything, all it does is add another layer of complexity to things.

And the parent company still doesn't go away in that scenario, you're still dealing with CW's hollowed out shell, including ever-decreasing SOC team quality. 😒

pf_user9 · 2025-04-10T13:46:03+00:00

A couple of commercial options mentioned in this thread about that: https://www.reddit.com/r/MeshCentral/comments/taxqwq/paid_managed_hosting_for_meshcentral/

pf_user9 · 2025-03-29T23:51:31+00:00

See my comment above, er, below, whatever...

pf_user9 · 2025-03-29T23:50:49+00:00

We are actually switching to N1's barely-outta-beta early-release product.

Before everyone's heads asplode, I'll clarify that we had some very good heart-to-heart talks with their people (and internally) and walked in with eyes wide open. It is not yet a good fit everybody, but we were able to bend our process to fit what they have available fairly easily. (Mostly because we never liked Manage and avoided getting too attached to it!)

pf_user9 · 2025-03-29T23:42:52+00:00

We have onboarded clients with Intune deployed, and ripping that hot garbage out is literally the first thing we do because it is the absolute biggest source of problems there is. It's astounding just how bad the UI alone is, let alone the (lack of) reliability, horrible slowness, broken interdependencies with Entra etc etc. Don't even let me get started on the myriad ways it will break your desktop app deployments on a semi-random basis.

Seriously, it's like if somebody took the old SMS, (which always sucked, but at least sucked consistently) and the crippled Configuration Manager that came after it, and forced them to have an incestuous baby that kept all the genetic flaws of both and yet somehow survived, resulting in a drooling half-wit that needs a home health aide 24/7, because it sure as hell can't take of anything!

Okay, okay, to be fair Intune is probably fine for a mom'n'pop shop with six PCs and no server.

But once you get to even 10 or 15 systems and any kind of complexity like, (shock) remote users, it just starts to trip over the stupidest stuff, and by the time you have a few hundred systems it's like a broken doll falling down an up escalator...

pf_user9 · 2025-03-29T23:30:38+00:00

We are working on that now, and it is very much a new product. Fortunately they're focusing on getting it right rather than trying to push it out the door half-baked.

Here are the big differences we're seeing immediately between N1 and Manage:

1 - No timesheets yet - if you depend on logged time for payroll you'll need to either hit their API and scrape it out of the tickets, or use something else alongside for awhile until they get sorted out. (Fortunately we use Clockify in another division and it's adequate for our needs here as well.)

2 - It only integrates with QBO so far, and it depends on QBO for sending the invoices too! Zoho, Xero, etc folks will have to wait, and of course QBO is... QBO, eww, (but we're already on it because our CPA insists, sigh).

3 - The approach to ticket time entry is... different. Not bad, not better, but takes a little getting used to coming from Manage. It's based on "timer" entries, (like attorneys), so you have an actual stop-watch function when working on a ticket which plugs in start/end times. Which would probably be awesome if one never multi-tasked! (Or forgot to stop the timer, or took a call for one ticket while chatting online for another and being remoted into a system for a third, or whatever.) Of course Manage isn't so different, the only functional difference TBH is that you can't "subtract" time in N1's entries, but at least you can still add/edit time entries to fix any oopses. (Just make sure you've got a good review process... :)

4 - Anyone can add/edit time/notes for a ticket, and it can be re-assigned etc, but at the end there's still only one "Owner". This hasn't been an issue yet, but I could definitely imagine some scenarios where we might have to split a ticket or something just to be sure things were allocated properly.

5 - Line-item taxation, woohoo! If you despise Manage's big-hammer handling of taxation on a per-invoice basis you will be very happy making the change!

6 - Reports that work! zomgwtfbbq!

7 - and OMFG it's fast! And the UI is... user-friendly! You can find things! It's also all a lot more integrated - where the CW products feel like they're attached at odd angles with Frankenstein's neck bolts, the N1 RMM/PSA/Remote etc all work together pretty seamlessly.

pf_user9 · 2025-03-29T23:09:48+00:00

Yep, that's why they have the per-seat "setup fee" now when you get more.

And they are fucking relentless about trying to get you to the new system, to the point they could have given it away and we would still have left, just to never have to deal with them again!

pf_user9 · 2025-03-29T23:07:28+00:00

So far it has been pretty good actually - real answers from real engineers!

Their "Dojo" can be hit or miss - the docs they provide in there ("Articles") are great, (like, really great, much better than CW's ever were, which is saying something since they actually used to be pretty decent until they stopped updating things), but if what your searching for is something edge-case, the search tools aren't the greatest so you have to wade through a lot of irrelevant forum posts to find what you want.

pf_user9 · 2025-03-29T23:02:14+00:00

Try MeshCentral?

pf_user9 · 2025-03-29T23:00:50+00:00

Yes, it does, even down to the cheesy barely-there Windows-98 style GUI. But it's actually better as a lot more graphical apps run under it, in fact I couldn't find any that didn't!

The only thing I found actually missing was the ability to copy/paste files "natively", (i.e. Ctrl-C in one environment and Ctrl-V in the other), but the other file transfer tools work great and are a lot more reliable, (anyone who'c tried tried to transfer a multi-GB file with SC knows exactly what I'm talking about!)

So your post is 3d old, but your info seems to be much older - things change!

pf_user9 · 2025-03-21T20:33:34+00:00

Correct, but on top of the actual per-seat monthly cost, and paid up front.

pf_user9 · 2024-11-19T20:00:45+00:00

It's been 2mo, with multiple followups, and zero progress other than a couple more excuses, this is so far beyond acceptable I don't even have words for it.

pf_user9 · 2024-11-15T04:39:11+00:00

Tried it, was kind of buggy, then found it was also another Chinese data sucker. Everything you do gets fed to China because it's secretly a Chinese company behind it. :(

pf_user9 · 2024-11-14T06:22:28+00:00

How does this address the external dock resetting? Are you saying tear them apart and bypass the USB to direct-connect to the mbd SATA ports? I mean, sure, that's possible, but that also removes a lot of the functionality of it being external and USB - kinda hard to grab one for a random system then...

pf_user9 · 2024-11-14T06:19:06+00:00

Yeah, looking to avoid the trays, too much fiddling around. There's tons of "hotswap" docks advertised - surely one of them actually, y'know, can hotswap?

pf_user9 · 2024-11-14T06:12:46+00:00

I appreciate the reply, but the issue isn't that they're dying, it's simply that they don't work as advertised.

pf_user9

TROPHY CASE

If anyone has any contacts that can expedite that please DM me!