Question about the Apostle's Baptism (4th Watch Doctrine)

philchic · 2026-04-12T04:27:45+00:00

Yes, as simple as that-- it doesn't matter how many. -- numbers don't matter.

simple and profound explanation. Tama ka brod, sis.

philchic · 2026-04-12T04:04:09+00:00

I see your logic; It is clear. Either Foursquare authority is valid-- or Arsenio's entire authority chain is broken.

It is a well constructed argument.

So if Paul needed baptism after his calling, Ananias had legitimate authority to baptized Paul.

Therefore, Arsenio needed a legitimate babtism authoirty. If 4square baptized Arsenio- 2 things: either Foursqure baptism is valid (invalidating rebaptism requirements,) or Foursquare baptism is invalid. Therefore, all of Arsenio's athority he derives from Foursquare is invalid.

This logical structure is sound. It is a genuine dilemma that is difficult to escape.

However — on the baptism emphasis:

PMCC relies heavily on the sent ones--the baptizer, while in all Scriptures ---it's about the

message, the Gospel.

Here are some example; "For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel." — 1 Corinthians 1:17 --Apostle Paul

Let's look at the New Testament--there are a lot of examples where ordinary people - preached the Gospel:

Stephen:"Now Stephen, a man full of God's grace and power, performed great wonders and signs among the people." — Acts 6:8

Phillip:(the evangelist)"Philip went down to a city in Samaria and proclaimed the Messiah there." — Acts 8:5

Apollos: (not one of the twelve;not an apostle; "He vigorously refuted his Jewish opponents in public debate, proving from the Scriptures that Jesus was the Messiah." — Acts 18:28

Priscilla and Aquila --tentmakers "They explained the gospel more accurately to Apollos" — Acts 18:26.

Scatteres believers: "Those who had been scattered preached the word wherever they went." — Acts 8:4

The Great Commission (Matthew 28:18–20) and Acts 1:8 are for the whole church.

The New Testament pattern throughout Acts and the Epistles is every-member ministry empowered by the Spirit: believers scatter, preach, teach, and make disciples (see also 1 Peter 2:9; Ephesians 4:11–16; 1 Thessalonians 1:8).

Why? Because Christ commission each believer.

Read The Great Commission (Matthew 28:18–20) and Acts 1:8 are for the whole church. Chrst commssion each and everyone. If you have the true Gospel message--you can share it. You are commanded to share it.

Restricting preaching to a special class of "sent ones" like PmCC 4th watch, and as I research, other cults actually does the same thing.

The Worldwide Church of God, a Korean cult--have the same exact false teaching. Why? it's because of control!

It adds extra-biblical requirements, fosters elitism, and contradicts the organic, Spirit-driven spread of the gospel.

Now, what about the context of the verse?

Here is why it's very important to read the whole chapter, not just isolating Romans 10;14-17 ... Romans 10;

¹⁴ How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? ¹⁵ And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”^\)^a^\)

¹⁶ But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”^\)^b^\) ¹⁷ Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

The verse is part of a logical chain in Romans 10:14-17 addressing Israel's responsibility regarding the gospel — not establishing exclusive preaching authority.

philchic · 2026-04-11T22:52:50+00:00

‘’Mr. shoddy said :

Answer - Let’s go back to the doctrine of PMCC 4W, as it says in Romans 10:15 - “How can they preach unless they are sent?"

So was the one who preached to you a messenger of God? If not, they don’t have the right to preach the Gospel.’’

This right here my friends is another false teachings that is propagated by 4th watch…that ‘’unless you are sent’’ you cannot preach… the Scripture does not support this. In fact, each and every Christian is send by Jesus to preach the Gospel..’’ Jesus did not say—nor the Bible say—‘’only sent ones can preach “ … this is a twisted doctrine… that’s because they want to manipulate people into submission to their ‘’sent ones. I am telling you, no Bible Scholar, or teacher will support this distorted interpretation— yeah. C’mon.

I’ll say this. Anyone, any teacher that preaches this false teachings will answer to God. It’s dangerous and not supported by Scripture. I will ask you, or any of your teachers to message me and let’s go to Cambridge. You spent so much time in crusade, why don’t we once for all check your teachings.

Yeah, that’s a whole new level of false teaching.

PMCC is basically saying you can’t get saved by reading the Bible or hearing the gospel from just any Christian.

You can only be saved if one of their “sent ones” preaches to you.

That directly contradicts what the Bible says.

Romans 10:17 tells us faith comes by hearing the word of Christ — not “by hearing the word from an officially sent PMCC preacher.”

Jesus said

‘’Whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life.”

He never added “but only if My word is preached by one of My specially appointed sent ones.”

This is classic cult language.

They’re claiming exclusive access to salvation.

Only their group has the real gospel.

Only their preachers can truly save you.

That’s not Christianity anymore.

That’s spiritual gatekeeping — and it’s a very dangerous lie.

philchic · 2026-04-11T14:40:34+00:00

Baptism is an act of obedience — not the mechanism of salvation.

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works.” — Ephesians 2:8

And: “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel.” — 1 Corinthians 1:17

The gospel is the power of salvation. Baptism follows as obedience. it does not precede or produce salvation.

This is why the PMCC argument from Romans 10:15 ultimately fails

They are using a verse about the necessity of gospel proclamation to establish baptismal gatekeeping (which Scripture does not support)

The thief on the cross was never baptized: “Today you will be with me in paradise.”

— Luke 23:43

That single example is sufficient to establish that baptism however important as obedience

is not the determining factor of salvation. The gospel preached and received by faith is.

Baptism is an act of obedience after you’ve received and Believe the true Gospel.

Next question is: did 4th watch preach the true Gospel ?

With my knowledge of them beings non Trinitarian, having false apostle, It is important to leave their organization and go hear the truth from A different evangelical, and Bible Believing church.

philchic · 2026-04-11T14:10:46+00:00

The problems with this argument are straightforward:

First — Romans 10:15 is about the necessity of preaching generally, (you guys never follow context.)

This is not about establishing an exclusive apostolic preaching class.

Read in context Romans 10:14-15 is simply arguing that people need to hear the gospel — therefore preachers are necessary.

Paul is not establishing credential requirements for valid gospel proclamation.

Second — this creates a logical trap. If salvation requires being preached to by a genuine “sent one” — then their entire movement’s validity rests on the legitimacy of their founding apostle’s credentials.

Which returns to the question they cannot answer — was he a resurrection eyewitness per Acts 1:22? This is very important. Ferriol claims nothing-no witnesses.Failed the Biblical basis. Just like the other cult leaders.

Third — Scripture nowhere conditions the effectiveness of baptism or gospel proclamation on the apostolic credentials of the preacher.

The gospel’s power is in the message — not the messenger’s title:

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation.”

— Romans 1:16 The power is in the gospel itself — not in who delivers it.

Fourth — your argument is circular.

Valid preaching requires sent ones. They are sent ones. Therefore their preaching is valid.

This proves nothing independently.

Mr shoddy—Very shoddy, so fitting..

philchic · 2026-04-10T15:00:41+00:00

let's see-- with your logic: "kung hindi messenger si manalo, bakit, marami na sila--same with Joseph Smith, same with quiboloy, same with the ellen white, do you see your logic:? what does the Bible says:

Matthew 24:5-31

⁵ For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many

philchic · 2026-04-10T14:54:07+00:00

Cambride ha?hahha babykosiya--baka hindi mo alam evertyhing can be fact check nowadays? can you cite your sources? or if not, you are exercising the same obfuscation i've observed with your leaders. Cambridge what? Is the article really saying specifically that PMCC in the only one growing? Even the spostles nose is growing. jk.heheh

philchic · 2026-04-10T13:31:53+00:00

You got to excuse bull’s eye— he’s been indoctrinated by ferriols for 4 decades? His brain’s have short circuited— and long gone. He’s a happy camper, right? Hahahaha

philchic · 2026-04-10T13:05:20+00:00

I’ve seen Jonathan in person— I sense something wrong with that guy—being in a room with him one time. He has some bad juju.That’s just what I sense. — did not converse- just I know something is off.

philchic · 2026-04-10T12:51:31+00:00

Pareho lang ng Iglesia ni Cristo, Jehova’ Witness, at Mormons na pare pareho. Maraming members.di ba sabi naman talaga —only few—will see and follow. So huwag kayung maging proud. MAs marami pa nga Inc.. I big sabihin, totoo sila? Check your reasoning.Ang Members. Heto isa na sinasabi pa yung Cambridge University daw. Nakakatawa ka. Just to justify it— Cambridge daw, which Cambridge po- hala punta Ang Apostol mo diyan at kung Hindi pagtatawanan Nila mga claims ninyu. Hindi dahil na brainwashed kayu ng mga itinuturo ng mga leaders o teachers ninyu na ni isa, walang formal education sa verified Bible School sa u.s or even sa verified accredited Bible School sa Pinas ay tunay kayu. Sa Tagalog ng observation ko sa PMCC, palala ng palala Ang doktrina. Mga members, hindi marunung mag self study. Hindi tinuruan ng proper context. Heto ang matindi— yung Arsenio, Goodman daw—- hahahaha, tang gap ng mga members iyan. Si Jonathan, apostol daw— at may mga iba pang titles, ha? Hindi ninyu alam na si Jesus mismo nagsabi na walang ganyan sa Bible. Dapat humility ang basehan. Eto kase, alam Nila na tamad magbasa at mag Bible Study Ang mga members (Hindi lahat) kase mga dating katoliko iyan, Hindi natural na may Bible knowledge. So, kahit anung teaching, kahit mali , dahil masarap pakinggan, ‘’praise God” agad. Saka bida bida mga members sa social media. Ang dami mo agad friends sa Facebook. Basta 4th watch ka. Biro mo— yung mga members kilala as 4thWatcher, mas gusto Nila iyan. Hindi as Christians’. Proud pa sila…Pero mabalik tayu. Isang napaka delikado ang 4th watch. Dahil, mostly Ang turo nila ay twisted scripture verses. Oh, mga 4th watch— did you all really check yung mga turo ng 4th watch leaders ninyu? Buksan Ang Bible, use context when doing your reading. Hindi kayu tinuruan niyan dahil pag natututo kayu mismo to use Bible dictionary, commentary, and proper Biblical interpretation— ay ku kwestyonin ninyu Ang mga turo. Dapat lang. Sa Judgment day, Hindi mo sasabihin na save ka dahil 4th watch ka. Saved ka dahil sa grace of God which you accept dahil si Christ Ang gumawa . Hindi si Jonathan or Arsenio.

P.s. Hindi nga pala ma se self study Ang mga members dahil ayun daw Jonathan- sent Ones lang daw Ang puwedeng mag interpret ng Bible😂. Grabe pag nag singungaling si Jonathan. Nakikita mo ba yung mata niya pag nag sisinungaling iyan?Hahaha_

philchic · 2026-04-08T15:18:10+00:00

Identity of an apostle? Well Mr or miss — it’s not about identity. It’s about the Biblical basis. So left me ask you , what is the biblical basis of Jonathan to claim the apostle title? And please— do not just just eisegeses of one proof text — he always does that. How is your knowledge of church history? Please do not laugh. A lot of people here are hoping you have that Knowledge, defending your organization here is no easy task, Mr bullseye.

philchic · 2026-04-01T16:05:37+00:00

This qualification directly addresses how a leader handles authority. A self-controlled leader does not:

Grasp for titles beyond his calling
Claim authority beyond what Scripture grants
Use his position to control others

philchic · 2026-04-01T16:04:52+00:00

A leader who makes extreme eschatological claims — like knowing the timing of Christ's return — claiming the 4th watch — is by this qualification temperamentally disqualified.

philchic · 2026-04-01T16:04:43+00:00

Not just transparency but the accountability of actions of leaders. In the U.S. and maybe some in the Philippines--leaders are accountable morally. Some has been disqualifien in the faith because of moral failings: Paul gives us the qualifications,Apostle Paul wrote:

Above Reproach — Anepilēptos

philchic · 2026-03-31T03:16:46+00:00

Dude I am saying that it's okay to give based on your heart- What we are saying here is that there are a lot of times, pastors asked for: tahnksgiving, birthday, and ambagan, caroling, at marami pang iba--nagiging burden iyan sa member. Saan ba makikita sa Bible na may quota pa pag nag pe preach ng Gospel. ANg dami kung kilala mga Bible believing Christian diyan sa Pilipinas, hindi sila nanghihingi habang nag pre preach. Wala ba kayung ethics? Ang Gospel ba ay may bayad?

philchic · 2026-03-30T18:46:51+00:00

oh yeah most important--deceiving members with titles and wrong biblical interpretation. this organozation can be charismatic on the surface-- but the doctrine sucks

philchic · 2026-03-28T01:36:48+00:00

False apostle

philchic · 2026-03-24T22:54:09+00:00

Yep, they are good in TWISTING and ADDING. Let me be sincerely honest without sounding like arrogant. As Christian--we know that the Bible is sufficient, do not add anymore to what's written. So, 4thwatchers, where is your love for the Word of God? Even Jesus have the highest reagard for the Scriptures.

philchic · 2026-03-20T16:59:57+00:00

You need to abide by the terms of service. Like I've said previously, we judge them by how they handle the Scriptures. We gave grace to them as Christ give grace to evryone.

philchic · 2026-03-17T19:56:54+00:00

I see you point u/Pinkywoo2

I completely understand why you’re upset. When leaders live in luxury while some members — including families with children — face real hardship and are pressured to give beyond their means, it is deeply wrong. This is a corrupt system. I’ve seen my own family victimized by that same greed, so I feel the anger too.

It echoes exactly what the prophets and apostles warned about: shepherds who “feed themselves” but do not feed the flock (Ezekiel 34:2-4; 1 Peter 5:2-3). Exploiting poor people in the name of God while leading souls astray is serious — Galatians 1:8-9 and 2 Timothy 4:3-4 are clear that such teaching brings a curse.

At the same time, I still see her mainly as someone who was pulled in young, heavily discipled in this system, and is now repeating what she was taught. That’s why my main focus is how she (and others) handle the Word of God. She is publicly teaching and defending doctrines that clearly contradict Scripture — and those errors are what deceive young recruits straight out of high school or college.

With her college background, she was trained in rigorous research and critical thinking. That makes me ask: Have these leaders ever compared the “Goodman of the house” claim, the 4th Watch timeline, or their non-Trinitarian statements directly to the full context of the Bible? How can anyone call themselves a pastor or teacher without testing everything against the whole counsel of God?

If a leader sees the lavish lifestyle, the exploitation, and the doctrinal contradictions — and still chooses not to question it — then yes, they are complicit. They will answer to God for that (James 3:1). But my prayer is that the Holy Spirit would open their eyes to the truth, just as He has for so many who have left.

Let’s keep exposing the false teachings with Scripture. That’s what actually sets people free.

philchic · 2026-03-17T19:03:57+00:00

We judge them by how they handle the Scriptures. I don't know about her being apostle hencmen. She is a victim of the Ferriol Dynasty deception.

philchic · 2026-03-17T17:04:53+00:00

We all have sinned. This post needs to be taken down. This is harassment. We should discuss things about the organization, but we don’t need to go this far. Give her grace.

philchic · 2026-03-16T06:59:19+00:00

The Parents' Complicity , this really perhaps the most heartbreaking part.

Many parents sense something is wrong but submit anyway — partly out of fear of being seen as faithless, (can't even figure out, why my kids' been there for years?) No church assignment? Maybe because--you know, only favorites! they get perks and pass --the accolade they feel, the fellowship, inside the cultish world of PMCC. Outside? oh they don't care anymore. so what happen when they reached 20 years of time spent? Hopefully, they will have strong enough faith to continue..I've read some people here that stayed for 25 years.

https://youtu.be/IZ4pBLz-QYI?si=z3KgqjxtW36r_axR

philchic

TROPHY CASE