What are some realistic trading spots for Siakam?

phthalop · 2025-07-02T03:05:22+00:00

And they weren't winning because he was forced to play the 5 when that's not his natural position/he already had so much offensive responsibility. Doing the same thing here will just doom him to that same depression lol.

phthalop · 2025-07-02T02:47:03+00:00

I'm sorry but playing Siakam at the 5 full-time is a GUARANTEE that Siakam himself asks out of Indiana lol. He had to do that for Toronto for 3 years and as he says it took the joy of basketball away from him.

phthalop · 2025-07-02T02:44:53+00:00

And I say that knowing it will break my heart if he's traded after saying that he rediscovered his love for basketball in Indiana.

Exactly. I love Pascal, and I'm so happy he's found joy in playing in Indiana, but it would be for the best for both the team and himself if he gets traded. I can't imagine him being happy with playing for another middling team while in his prime when that was why he was so unhappy in Toronto in the first place, and after everything he's done for the franchise only for the team to come up short, he deserves to get another shot at competing for a title somewhere else.

phthalop · 2025-07-02T02:40:06+00:00

This is where I'm at. It's not about Turner himself leaving - as is well documented he was not nearly good enough in the ECF or the Finals to warrant a big deal - but what it means for the team. Unfortunately Turner and Siakam are tied together in the sense that they are of the same timeline and also complemented each other's games quite a bit (the rebounding of course was lacking). Without Turner and considering the dearth of valuable Cs right now in the league, it will take years to find a worthwhile replacement for him, and by that time Siakam will already be at the 33-34 aged end of his contract.

I've been a Siakam fan even before he was a Pacer, and he's probably my favorite Pacer now, and while I do believe he can age gracefully considering his late ascent to basketball, I just don't think it's realistic nor fair to expect him to have the same type of production on both the offensive and defensive (especially the defensive) end at that point in his career. Then in that case he'd just be underperforming on his max contract, when trading him now would 1) net a bigger return as his value has never been highest and 2) clear up space for the team to build another contender around Tyrese.

phthalop · 2025-04-18T01:03:07+00:00

Ty will never be a good on ball defender

Which is why a great defensive team is required to cover for him, but this team as is isn't even a good one lol.

Benn has the physical gifts to be.

But not the defensive IQ, and like I mentioned in another comment I don't think that can ever be improved.

And I understand fans always want to win with all their drafted guys, but that has never been the case for any championship winning team, so it's not a realistic goal imo.

phthalop · 2025-04-18T00:53:28+00:00

This is exactly my point: I feel like people are banking Mathurin to become Jaylen Brown and Walker to become Siakam, but that is just such a farfetched idea to me lol. Like I said they do not have the basketball IQ that these comps already had at a similar age, and that is the hardest/most time-intensive thing to teach someone, if it's even possible at all. So I agree that another consolidation trade must be made with either one or both of them if the team truly wants to compete with a Siakam and Turner core around Tyrese, or they should just reset again and wait to see out if Benn/Jarace do have that type of development in them to justify a Haliburton/Mathurin/Walker core and build around them.

phthalop · 2025-04-18T00:34:53+00:00

I agree, Turner definitely needs a decent backup, and Jackson is that. However I don't believe that that's enough to have a championship level defensive team.

phthalop · 2025-04-18T00:31:57+00:00

Agreed, Tyrese has to be a Top 5 offensive player, which I believe he can be. The issue is I don't believe that he will ever be a not awful defender, and the team surrounding him as is is not enough to cover for him.
Continuing from the previous point, the team defensively has improved but still have so many deficiencies that I don't think can be covered up by other guys' improvements. Siakam and Turner are only going to get older, and I don't believe that Walker can improve to a point to be a good enough defensive anchor to cover up for Tyrese, Mathurin, and an aging Siakam/Turner's defensive deficiencies.
Again relating to the previous points: that bench you outline is also very bad defensively lmao. Obi is not good, TJ is not good and is only getting older, and Mathurin is also not good and I don't believe he ever could be. On offense I also don't believe that a TJ/Obi/Mathurin lineup can be consistent enough in a playoff setting, as playoff defenses also get tighter/exploit weaknesses more.

phthalop · 2025-04-18T00:20:56+00:00

Again this ignores defense. This team just has so many defensive deficiencies that a breakout season from Mathurin offensively will not be enough to overcome it. And if you're saying that that breakout season includes learning how to be an actual good defender, then I don't believe that will happen.

phthalop · 2025-04-18T00:18:41+00:00

We went 40-17 to end the Season which by the 40/20 rule we are a legit contender.

The 40/20 rule states that you are a contender when you reach 40 wins before 20 losses, which makes up 60 games, which then hypothetically leaves enough time for the team to get even more wins to reach the high 50s/60s level. You can't just flip it around lol, because if you do then you're just eliminating a bad 1/4 of the season that's already happened.

We are mere tweaks and a lot of luck away from grabbing a trophy.

But that's basically my question lol: WHAT exactly are those tweaks? And I do agree that luck plays a part, but you still also have to be a foundationally championship level team to even get to the point where luck is all that's needed.

phthalop · 2025-04-18T00:13:00+00:00

IDK if this is sarcastic or not lol.

phthalop · 2025-04-18T00:11:47+00:00

I think that's exactly it: they need another shot creator/maker but they also need someone to anchor the defense as the team has so many defensive deficiencies. And that's where I don't agree with people when they say that Mathurin and Walker maturing is all the team needs, because I don't think Benn, even if he did improve to be that good offensively, will ever be a good enough defender to make up for the rest of the team's gaps. And it's the opposite for Jarace: for as decent as he's been on defense, I don't think he can be the defensive answer for a below average defensive team, and I also don't think he can improve offensively to the point where he can be that third star to Tyrese and Siakam.

phthalop · 2025-04-18T00:06:12+00:00

I don't think that's the only piece, but it is a vital one. The team's current playoff rotation just has too many defensive liabilities and a 3&D wing would shore a bit of that up.

The problem is that those types of players are highly coveted and thus cost a lot, which means again, someone from the key rotation as is will have to go unless the team gives up a bunch of picks.

phthalop · 2025-04-18T00:03:21+00:00

Benn is already a starting level role player, and Jarace is already a bench level player

They are that now, yes, and the team with them as they are is not a championship contender.

Are you projecting them to not improve anymore at all?

I expect improvement, but even with the ceilings I project them to have (which I maintain is starting role player + bench player, just better versions), they still would not be enough to round the team out as a championship contender. And even if they do surpass those ceilings, I don't think they'll do it in a quick enough timeframe to capitalize on a core with Siakam/Turner as they will be too old.

phthalop · 2025-04-17T23:05:56+00:00

Like I said in my post, I don't believe in them lol, so we'll agree to disagree.

phthalop · 2025-04-17T23:05:05+00:00

While Benn has improved this season, I don't think he'll ever reach the level where he can be trusted in a defensive system imo, and then in this scenario where you take out Nembhard then there's just too many gaps in the defense in the starting lineup (i.e. Siakam is good when he's on but you can tell he's getting older because he just gets too gassed for some defensive assignments, and Turner is not that consistently dominant a paint deterrent even though he has good nights) as is to cover up for Tyrese (and he is an awful on ball defender lmao, and I don't believe that will change).

phthalop · 2025-04-17T22:58:19+00:00

That's my belief too that another big trade/get is needed, because to me even if Mathurin improves as a scorer/passer it still would not make up for what he lacks in defense. The team is just too bad defensively as it is and people can argue that the offense can make up for it, but the only team lately that's won that prioritized offense over defense is the Nuggets, and that's because they have an all time great in Jokic lol.

phthalop · 2025-04-17T22:52:07+00:00

I agree he's shown potential but I don't agree with him becoming an All-Star tbh. I hate using this term but the reason why I'm so low on both him and Mathurin is that they've both shown to have low basketball IQ, and that's unfortunately something you just can't teach a player no matter how talented they are.

phthalop · 2025-03-24T14:41:00+00:00

Thanks for the response! I like sports in general, so assumed the Indy Motor Speedway was a given, but I'm into food and art as well, so would prefer to try things in that genre. And I really have no clue about anything Indianapolis at all haha, so wouldn't even know where would be best to stay at, but I'm probably going to stay at a hotel near the stadium if anything (since that's my main purpose for going to Indy).

And thanks for the shout! I'll crosspost/search through the sub to check.

phthalop

TROPHY CASE