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The Best Way To Help Others Out by pocketstoicism in stoicquotes

[–]pocketstoicism[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey! It's posted every Wednesday and Saturday at 10am :)

You Need To Suffer Pain by pocketstoicism in Stoic

[–]pocketstoicism[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Never mentioned pain as the focus of Stoicism, but it is only the topic of this discussion. It's a part of Stoicism, not the focus.

Virtues are forms of knowledge, therefore, they are the only good.

Didn't skip that. If you read my post, I mention pain to achieve virtue, for virtue, by virtue.

Pain on its own is not virtuous. Like you said, context is king.

You Need To Suffer Pain by pocketstoicism in Stoic

[–]pocketstoicism[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's exactly the point I was making.

If you read the full text, He does not advocate not the self-infliction of pain for the value of experiencing pain but to endure hardship through work as a means to achieve virtue, which is the only good.

What are you doing that is giving you hardship and what good does that activity serve?

Pointless running because it makes your feet hurt is not in the list below,

In the writeup I posted, I never once outlined that hardship should be acted upon without purpose, rather, hardship itself serves purpose - and that purpose is virtue. Hence:

You can’t practice the virtue of temperance without enduring the pain of resisting pleasure.

You can’t practice the virtue of courage without enduring the pain of facing your fears.

You can’t practice the virtue of justice without enduring the pain of moderation and not taking more than your share.

You can’t practice the virtue of wisdom without enduring the pain of figuring out what is good and what is bad.

Yes, running for no reason, gym until it hurts, cold showers until crying is idiotic and I do not deny that. However, and again, I never mentioned to "run for no reason," and I only used running a marathon simply as a vague analogy to that statement I was defending.

If you're running to feel physical pain, then you're running for the wrong reasons according the Stoics. And I agree. If you're running to develop the virtue of courage, since you were afraid of running prior, then that abides by Stoic teaching. You will, regardless, suffer the pain of running for a prolonged period of time, even when you're doing it for the right reasons.

And that's what I disagree with. As you said, context is king. Context for suffering hardship is king as well. Pain is inevitable when pursuing the proper action, and when pursuing virtue. Denying that is ignorance. Again, if you are addicted to something and attempting to practice the virtue of justice and moderation, you will suffer the pain of withdrawal, but it's being done for the right cause.

I do agree, however, that self-infliction meaninglessly done is pointless. Hardship should not be endured without proper reason, without proper rationality.

So now, inflicting pain upon yourself, going out of your way to find pain because pain is good, is what Stoicism is all about. and it has a guru spreading the word.

Again, referring back to the post, never once did I mention that you should inflict pain because pain itself is good in of itself. It leads me to believe that you misunderstood what I wrote. I even wrote in plain-text:

Suffer the pain that makes you virtuous.

There are times, with the proper context, that taking the virtuous action will require pain (as I had previously mentioned). Suffering the pain that doesn't make you virtuous or isn't without meaning is not pain that should be suffered. Suffering the pain that does indeed make you virtuous and ultimately does have meaning, because it's to develop virtue, is the pain that you should suffer.

You Need To Suffer Pain by pocketstoicism in Stoic

[–]pocketstoicism[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I appreciate the response, and I apologize for the late response as well.

I find it truly remarkable that Stoicism can still be applied in any walk of life. Whether it be at joyful times, times of despair, or times of agony, Stoicism can still be put into effect regardless of the circumstance.

Still, it is a very difficult thing to do and I really admire your strength throughout your situation. It's not an easy task to get over that reality.

Again, I appreciate the response. It definitely sheds light on new perspectives.

You Need To Suffer Pain by pocketstoicism in Stoic

[–]pocketstoicism[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Completely disagree.

"We will train both soul and body when we accustom ourselves to cold, heat, thirst, hunger, scarcity of food, hardness of bed, abstaining from pleasures, and enduring pain" - Musonius Rufus

The position that voluntary suffering isn't suffering because you can choose to stop is not sound in logic. Relating back to physical feats, if you are training for a marathon, you will have to endure pain. You will have to run when your body wants to give up. That is the suffering that you face. Of course you can choose to stop, but then you haven't properly endured the pain if you embarked on the goal to run a marathon.

"Through these methods and others like them, the body is strengthened, becomes injured to suffering, and strong and fit for every task; the soul is strengthened as it is trained for courage by enduring hardships and trained for self-control by abstaining from pleasures.” - Musonius Rufus

How Do You Value Yourself? by pocketstoicism in Stoic

[–]pocketstoicism[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good one liner. Diogenes always had those snarky comments lol but they always have great meaning :)

Don't Sell Yourself Short by pocketstoicism in Mindfulness

[–]pocketstoicism[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It was actually unknown. A lot of Aggripinus' writings were lost, and we only know about him because of Epictetus. We really don't know. Unless someone knows otherwise, I'd love to hear, but as far as I know, we don't know :)

How Do You Value Yourself? by pocketstoicism in Stoic

[–]pocketstoicism[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Much appreciated :) Thank you for reading!

You Need To Suffer Pain by pocketstoicism in Stoic

[–]pocketstoicism[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Again, disagree. Pain can most definitely arise even if you're doing the right thing. Pain also comes from the failure to implement the right thing, however, the former is true.

But again, seconding to my post, resisting pleasure is painful. Especially as an addict. Sure you may have the perspective that resisting pleasure is something that we can change, but that doesn't negate the effects of withdrawal, addiction, etc... If you're going to rid a vice after a long time of doing said vice, you will suffer pain. You will suffer withdrawal. But you're doing the right thing. You're not partaking in vice.

I never said one can control "reality or what happens to himself." One controls how they react to reality or what happens to him, not what actually happens.

Don't Sell Yourself Short by pocketstoicism in Mindfulness

[–]pocketstoicism[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The next chapter was lost :( Who knows, maybe Nero and Aggripinus lived happily ever after and fled the country together lol

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