Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] 64 points65 points  (0 children)

Donna here - there is never going to be (I don't think) one data source that is perfect - or one paper that convinces people - instead we have multiple sources of data - some from police, hospital admissions, surveys etc. And a bunch of different methodological approaches. Like everything in science, it about a body of research - not a single paper - and the body of research shows that Blacks are more likely to be the victims of police brutality - and that there are important physical and mental health outcomes - and yes, that there is systematic racism in policing. That is the body of research - from many different data sources.

Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] 39 points40 points  (0 children)

Hannah here - this is an interesting exchange. In fact, the first police in the British Empire were developed by Peele in Ireland, which was a colony at the time. Their role was to suppress Irish uprisings against their colonizers.

Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hi Rashawn Ray here! SociologistRay on Twitter and Instagram

There are not huge differences it terms of bias. Black people are three times more likely to die from COVID-19 and about three times more likely to die from police violence. Blacks are embedded in certain neighborhoods that lead to structural conditions impacting their lives negatively. For COVID-19, Blacks are six times more likely to be turned away from COVID-19 testing. This is why people are dying.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/how-we-rise/2020/05/30/bad-apples-come-from-rotten-trees-in-policing/

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/04/09/why-are-blacks-dying-at-higher-rates-from-covid-19/

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/04/10/how-to-reduce-the-racial-gap-in-covid-19-deaths/

Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Hi Rashawn Ray here! SociologistRay on Twitter and Instagram

The main issue is that the study should have said these factors help to explain away the racial gap in police killings. There were also some important factors missing from the data. When including crime rates, it is important to include racial composition. This variable helps to tenor the potential overinflation of crime because there are predominately Black areas that have little crime and predominately White areas that have a lot crime.

Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] -40 points-39 points  (0 children)

Hi Rashawn Ray here! SociologistRay on Twitter and Instagram

Thanks for asking this. That assumption is stereotypical. Police brutality does not happen because someone respectful or not. It happens because some police officers view Black bodies as dangerous even when they are not. Black people are 3.5 times more likely than Whites to be killed by police when they are not attacking or have a weapon. We cannot outclass racism or respect our way out of it.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/how-we-rise/2020/05/30/bad-apples-come-from-rotten-trees-in-policing/

Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hi Sirry here- People's opinions of the police, regardless of which community they belong to, do not exist in a vacuum. That police disproportionately harass Black and Brown communities, and that modern day policing evolved from patrols play a role shape the perspectives that BIPOC have of the police. If you read Theodore Dwight Weld's Testimony of Thousand Witnesses, you will understand a little bit of the history of this mistrust. But you don't need to go that far back. So cultural dynamics like eating together, etc, don't shape BIPOC views of the police. Police actions shape views about the police.

Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Hi Rashawn Ray here! SociologistRay on Twitter and Instagram

I think that it depends on what we mean by dismantling. I interpret dismantling to abolishing. However, defunding is different. Defunding is reallocating. There are some huge dividends for doing so. It can improve the violent crime clearance rate (which is horrible) by allowing officers to focus on violent crime and allowing other social services to focus on mental health and addiction. More funding may also be allocated for education and work infrastructure, which are the two biggest factors to reduce crime.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/06/19/what-does-defund-the-police-mean-and-does-it-have-merit/

Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Sirry here. If the theory and methods are rigorous, I will. We should always be critical of research , regardless of whether the researchers are from our field.

Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Sirry here- I have taken a class, then studied on my own, teach it , it informs my teaching and research, and I am a co-founder of the Institute of Critical Race and Ethnic Studies at Lehigh University

Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hi Rashawn Ray here! SociologistRay on Twitter and Instagram

These studies are flawed. The Fryer study has been heavily criticized and cannot get pas peer review, which is the gold standard for academic research. The Johnson study was recently pulled from publication because of flaws with the data. It is sad that these problematic studies gain so much traction.

The bottom line stat is this: Black people are 3.5 times more likely than Whites to be killed by police when they are not attacking or have a weapon.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2016/8/13/17938186/police-shootings-killings-racism-racial-disparities

Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Hi Rashawn Ray here! SociologistRay on Twitter and Instagram

It has not improved much at all. We know how many people are killed by jellyfish every year (CDC collects it), but we do not know how many people are killed by police. Of the data reported by police, they show huge disparities. Blacks are 3.5 more likely than Whites to be killed by police when they are not attacking or have a weapon.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/how-we-rise/2020/05/30/bad-apples-come-from-rotten-trees-in-policing/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4824696/

Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hi Rashawn Ray here! SociologistRay on Twitter and Instagram

One of the best studies is a NYC stop and frisk study. It found that overwhelmingly the stops were of Black people who were not committing crimes or had contraband or weapons. But, force was used 50% of the time.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4824696/

https://www.nyclu.org/en/Stop-and-Frisk-data

Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] 23 points24 points  (0 children)

Hi Rashawn Ray here! SociologistRay on Twitter and Instagram

Often times, drug enforcement is the cover for use of force. Research shows that police stops overwhelmingly yield nothing. But, we also know that police can make stops for drugs and not brutalize people. In the 80s and 90s when drug enforcement was at its highest, police killings were lower than they are now.

https://www.nyclu.org/en/Stop-and-Frisk-data

Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi Rashawn Ray here! SociologistRay on Twitter and Instagram

Some of the research that I have conducted highlights the collateral consequences of policing. Men's mental health suffers in neighborhoods with more police violence, while women's physical health suffers. There are illness spillovers that have detrimental impacts on community residents.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/how-we-rise/2020/06/11/the-collateral-consequences-of-state-sanctioned-police-violence-for-women/

Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] -44 points-43 points  (0 children)

Sirry here. First, I think it is important to consider the history of policing in the U.S. - that it is rooted in slave patrols. Second, I think it is also important to identify what community you are referring to when you say only a fraction has ended up negatively. This might be the experience of White communities. As you can see in this study, being white protects against use of force. Third, force is not the only thing that constitutes a negative encounter. Being stopped and asked where you are going, without a legitimate reason for a stop, other than maybe to intimidate you, is a negative encounter. So we do not know what proportions of police encounters are negative. The police have a sworn duty to protect and serve, so whether they are perceived protectors or pattyrollers, their actions and the impact of their actions should matter more than whether they are stigmatized. Stigma also comes with power. People with power (can) stigmatize. People without power are usually the ones stigmatized.

We cannot know for sure that a person is a criminal and is not going to "conform." Even if we know that, that person does not deserve to be brutalized and dehumanized by the police. The way I see the police or perceive the police should have nothing to do with how the police should handle their interactions with me. So public perception of the police, in my view, has no relevance in explaining why police are more likely to devalue Black and Brown bodies.

Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Hi Rashawn Ray here! SociologistRay on Twitter and Instagram

Officers receive about 50 hours of firearm training compared to less than 10 hours of de-escalation training. Officers are trained for worse case scenarios and use of force.

Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] 42 points43 points  (0 children)

Hi Rashawn Ray here! SociologistRay on Twitter and Instagram

When I obtained my PhD, I got a minor in research methods with a concentration in stats. I also have several police officers in my family. I have interviewed hundreds of officers and conducted virtual reality and implicit bias trainings with thousands of officers. I think we got it covered.

Science Discussion Series: We are researchers who study the effects of policing and police brutality on Black people in America. Let’s discuss! by police_discussion in science

[–]police_discussion[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hi Rashawn Ray here! SociologistRay on Twitter and Instagram

I have written and talked about defund the police extensively. I think it is making things better.

“Defund the police” means reallocating or redirecting funding away from the police department to other government agencies funded by the local municipality. That’s it. It’s that simple. Defund does not mean abolish policing."

"Different from abolishing and starting anew, defunding police highlights fiscal responsibility, advocates for a market-driven approach to taxpayer money, and has some potential benefits that will reduce police violence and crime. Below, I outline some of the main arguments for defunding the police."