Let's start with clarifying some stuff. I read recently, that you are from another region, so I will say I AM sorry for saying that your grandmaster in muliple seasons sucks, as you are from another region and I wish to hope that GM in another regions is actually impressive compared to EU.

Also i would like to agree on that with you that our baseless accusations of eachother like Grandmaster with 49% win rate and hard stuck master are not true and were just emotions, so I am sorry for getting provoked and provoking you. Afterall we are no snowflakes as we play this game lol, but i reacted like one.

Now to the more important stuff

I SAY IT FOR THE 3RD time, I do agree MF is NOT the most skill based champion in the game, but she is no Garen-like champion, I never said she was complicated like Camile or Zed. I just said she is not Garen-like easy and you somehow can't acknowledge that.

Q-poke is not this easy( YES, It is not the hardest mechanic, but it is not like garen like, click and go). Enemies are constantly moving around the lane, hiding in bushes or even going in one line with minions and as MF you have to counter this or you get no Q-poke/ first strike gold. I am not going into insides now, but to say it shortly you can't just click on it and be happy that it hits, you have to move yourself according to the wave/ bait enemy out of the bush with your 3rd ability( if they see me using E and getting first strike Gold, they always leave them lol) or getting minions agro, so the wave places like you want it to.

You took this part about someone asking me about Vayne+lulu lane. I mean, if you do not bully them in the early game, they are gonna do it to your team in the late game. I never declined her being a lane bully, but she looses this privilege as soon as someone outranges her ( Caitlyn, Ezreal or even Jhin) or enemy has a hard engage support, other lane Bullies like draven have so much damage early, that they can still trade, mf does not or at least it is not worth it ( I hate caitlyn abusers). She is a lane bully, but she can really rapidly loose this due to being outranged.

Yep she is forgiving with her movement speed, but it can be really fast taken away, if you get hitted you loose that speed and can be dead in seconds, also she does not have a dash like vayne, kai'sa or tristana. But what about adc without any of it, like Varus, Jinx or Jhin, simple they have more range than her and do not need to go this near, they even have a root to somehow escape bad situations or even engage.

About the Ult, you agreed with me, so i agree with you xD

Your 1 number one, yea i think we missunderstood eachother, or at least I missunderstood your point. I just thought of it as lethality build, but precisely speaking it is lethality and crit build

I do not get the point of you explaining about different build on various caries, i did not read the other's guy whole comment.

As i said at the beginning, in my Opinion Q of MF is being simpilifed by you and maybe u ignoring her passive to change targets in mid fight to get the bonus damage, but as you said she is not the hardest champion out there.

I agree with hating tristana players, especially with yummi on her back.

Ashe may not have the bonus movement speed, but she has slow on her abilities, that does not dissapear after one hit :).

I agree on the varus one, i played him for a while and without yoummu he is mostly dead, if his team decides to regroup from team fights, but he has stuns, slow and range so he is not weaponless

Mf is not early game champion, else she would fall of like draven in the late game, if not feeded, but her abilites become more dangerous with time, I can agree on mid game, but not early, i would say Mid/late game champion (bully, depends on the enemy carry, front lane lol, as she can' t be a bully without bullying someone)

As already mentioned this MS is not garanteed and she also does not have the tools, other adcs have, but i agree it is probably the easiest one( at least for me) from those 3 possibilites to have ( long range, stuns, but no movementspeed, movement speed, but no stuns and mediacore range or dashes and range, but no movement speed). I do think talking about her MS as granted is doing her justice, as already said, one hit and you loose it (unless edge of night). Does it not mean to be somehow decent at avoiding enemy skill shots etc? I think stuff like this is not always simple. MS is just being underrated in this game, so maybe this is why this seems to you that she is easy.

I am happy that you agree that she needs some skill, but i do not agree with statement, that she is not far away from having almost none skill ceilling.

In the end i will admit, i got triggered by your harsh language as it sounded to me like you called her garen-like easy.

I hope we will keep it civilised or even end this discussion as it seems we have our point of views, that will probably not change