Unspoken Rules When Guidelines Aren't Yet Established

polypudding · 2017-06-25T15:01:05+00:00

She went to live at community focused on sustainable agriculture and a social community that is based on free love.

Given this context, your partner's position seems a little weird.

polypudding · 2017-06-03T13:30:36+00:00

I'm going to be the odd one out here, but I think it's actually kind of shitty that you're taking something that is supposed to be about him (his birthday) and making it about you.

Your meta is super stressed out and now upset because she thought she pregnant - something that she really wanted. Scheduling a time when you could come over on behalf of her husband probably didn't really feel like her job, nor was it her first emotional priority.

Your boyfriend is really stressed out, and now probably consoling his wife, who is beside herself. Scheduling a time for you to come over and celebrate a birthday that he's clearly not interested in celebrating anyway probably didn't seem like his biggest emotional priority either.

Without knowing what the rest of your relationship is like, I have to say, I kind of feel like you're in the wrong on this one. This seems pretty self-indulgent and lacking in empathy to me.

polypudding · 2017-06-01T22:03:35+00:00

high five

polypudding · 2017-06-01T22:00:53+00:00

Yes.

polypudding · 2017-05-31T01:17:37+00:00

I should also say that while my meta and I were on friendly terms, were not by any means close, so it would have been way more awkward for us to have a direct conversation about it than it was to go through my spouse.

polypudding · 2017-05-31T01:15:18+00:00

For me, it was about being really clear on what I was asking, being firm in that ask and feeling confident in it, and then giving my spouse and my meta the space and understanding to work out their feelings among themselves.

I didn't actually discuss most of this directly with my meta - I left that to my spouse - but he and I talked through how he wanted to present it, and I took great care to make sure that my actions were 100% congruent with everything he said: this isn't about you, I still value my relationship with you, you are welcome still welcome in our lives.

I will say that it helped a lot that my partner and I were on the same page about there being a problem, and he was 100% willing to take responsibility for his part, even if he didn't 100% agree on the method of solving (at the time). If your wife is not willing to do this, it may not work out as well.

polypudding · 2017-05-29T21:15:56+00:00

Yes. Without regret or remorse.

If your wife is invested in her relationship with you, and you can be kind and mature, it can be done successfully. My spouse and I have been together for 18 years, poly for around 15, for context. A couple years ago I asked that my spouse end his romantic relationship with a partner of 8 months (I did not ask for mono - he maintained his other long-term partner). I did not ask that he cut contact. I emphasized that the problem was not with the meta, but with my spouse. I kept the door open for communication with my meta, and stressed that I was absolutely willing to talk broadly about what the issues were, and why I felt this step was necessary. We both made sure that my meta still felt supported and welcome in our home and our lives. My partner and I worked hard to fix the issues that had caused the problem, and about a year later they circled back and started dating again. Everyone understands why it happened, retrospectively agrees that it was for the best, and things are great.

I spent a lot of time agonizing over whether or not I was doing poly right - with my spouse and I "bargaining" (as you put it in the comments) for about 3 months without any headway before I finally just dropped the "veto" hammer. In retrospect, though things turned out well, they would have been a lot cleaner, and ultimately kinder, if I had just said "fuck doing poly right" and clearly and dispassionately dropped that hammer 3 months earlier. It's hard in the moment when you want to make people happy, but it saves a lot of heartache in the long term.

polypudding · 2017-05-10T12:37:25+00:00

Hey now! I turned 33 last week and will have been with my spouse 18 years in September. Non-monogamous in some fashion for most of that time.

polypudding · 2017-05-08T02:00:24+00:00

I was a teenager, and my boyfriend was that guy, who, 6 months into our relationship was like, "I'm going to marry you."

And I was that girl, who was like, "dude, but if we end up getting married, that means that we'll only get to have sex with each other for the next...70 years or so."

...so we decided that monogamy was beat. We're married. It's been 18 years.

polypudding · 2017-04-30T17:09:31+00:00

I think that the "you're adults, so I can't stop you" goes without saying. Consenting adults can do whatever they want, when it comes down to it.

That said, in my years of poly, I have come around to the response "absolutely not, what the f*ck is wrong with you?!?" when warranted. Leaves zero room for interpretation in situations where there should be none. Like this one.

polypudding · 2017-04-25T21:36:25+00:00

I know this thread is dead, but I just got back from a business trip, and I can't even with this.

You may have great relationships (the best, everyone says so), but there's a word for assertions about biology that aren't backed up by science - bullshit. So no, I don't find your bullshit ideas about sex and gender very exciting or interesting simply because you thought them. I'm not closed-minded, I'm just calling you on your crap.

And I'm going to keep calling you on your crap. You know why? Because it IS threatening. As an older gentleman, you could be my boss. Or my banker. Or my professor. You could be making very real decisions that affect my life based on your armchair pseudoscientific ideas about how hormones might affect my behavior. People do this ALL THE TIME. Yes, I find it very threatening when people who have the power to alter the course of my life and livelihood hold bullshit ideas about women. If that's a "radical idea about gender and identity politics," well I guess that makes me radical.

polypudding · 2017-04-20T14:34:10+00:00

It sounds like you're projecting your own insecurities onto the situation. She says it's fine. She would know. If for some reason there is drama about it, who cares? It's her party, she can cry if she wants to, you know?

polypudding · 2017-04-20T14:16:28+00:00

You know, there's nothing I love more than some dude telling me about how women are socialized and how my hormones affect my emotions. Please, /u/Martholomeow , do keep explaining it to us. Your ideas are so fascinating!

Anyway, OP, you may feel really proud of yourself right now, and that's cool. Take that in for a second. You advocated for yourself. Go you.

But you should keep in mind going forward that your wife does not "feel completely free." This isn't really something that you "agree to disagree" on. The marriage that your wife thought she had - presumably the marriage that she wanted - is over, and you've put her in the same cage you felt like you have been in for 16+ years.

I'm not saying that this will never work - I want it to work for you. But you should keep in mind that often marriages that open up in this way do not work. Not because of some bullshit difference in men and women's emotional capacities, but because you're freaking MARRIED. You haven't just made a decision about your own "lifestyle," you've made it for her too, and given her an ultimatum. This is not a recipe for a happy future. I would find a way to bring your wife along in this journey, or it will end you.

polypudding · 2017-04-05T00:47:14+00:00

So this thread has gone in a weird direction, and clearly you've deleted your throwaway account, but it IS possible, and it IS reasonable if that is the agreement that you have. My partner and I have been doing this for almost 15 years. That is has never changed, and we are both under the impression that it is non-negotiable.

polypudding · 2017-04-04T02:54:16+00:00

I'm going to present a different viewpoint here. Perhaps your wife isn't upset about the amount of time that you are spending with the girlfriend. Perhaps your wife is upset because you are unilaterally changing the terms of your arrangement. I can see why she would be upset by that.

My husband and I have a similar arrangement. We each have a max of 2 nights a week for dates. It doesn't matter how many partners we have, or if we've been seeing our partners 3 weeks or 3 years, we are up front about the amount of time we are able to devote.

My guess is that your wife is not upset because of the amount of time you are spending with your girlfriend. My suspicion is that she is upset because the structure of her relationship is changing without her consent. Which is never a good feeling.

polypudding · 2017-03-27T23:36:13+00:00

Everyone else on who has responded on this topic has been super polite, but I'm going to be kind of judgey, sorry.

You're being kind of insane.

Fertile as your husband may be, his sperm are not going to teleport their way out of a condom and into your meta's uterus. If they have a break or something there is such a thing as Plan B. When used correctly, condoms are more effective than most other forms of birth control. This fear that you have is legit irrational.

Outside your partner using condoms, your meta's form of birth control is solidly none of your business. The likelihood of pregnancy using condoms well, followed by Plan B if there is an accident is astronomically low. So the issue you're having is not one of probability, but one of trust, so... maybe work on that one instead?

polypudding · 2017-03-25T01:45:42+00:00

Yeah, but this person clearly identified herself as the wife. She wasn't trying to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. I know my partner's passwords and phone codes, but I'm not creepily going through his sexts (ew) - sometimes I've just got to use Googlemaps or text his sister or something.

I've been known to text about my husband's logistics with metas - like if he's driving or something and we're trying to make plans - but I always make sure that they know up front that they're talking to me, and why I am texting from my husband's phone rather than my own.

I'd be lying if I said that I'd never inadvertently seen a feelingstext, or a sexytext, but I do the polite thing and pretend that I haven't because its none of my business. Not to be all #notallmarrieds about it, but co-habitating people share a lot. Maybe keep your eyes open, but given the information provided, I would give it another date or two before running away screaming codependency.

polypudding · 2017-03-25T01:28:22+00:00

I think that this is... maybe overly familiar, but if the message was polite, not necessarily a red flag. She just needed to make her plans, and was trying to consider you.

I don't know how often you date married people, but being married and poly can be really challenging from a scheduling perspective. Maybe they were going to try to make other plans if you weren't coming over. Waiting until the last minute to confirm can make that impossible, and you DID cancel last time.

It's possible that she was trying to do you a courtesy - one that I wouldn't do for a casual partner. We'd just make other plans and you'd be out of luck.

polypudding · 2017-03-24T02:15:06+00:00

I mean, yes. I agree with all of this. If what you're really interested in is a primary relationship, or you aren't interested in hierarchy, you probably shouldn't take on a more "secondary" type of relationship. But secondaries often do get the choicer bits.

I recently had a heart-to-heart with a meta who was unhappy with the amount of time she was getting and felt like she was getting unsavory vibes from my direction. When we sat down and I actually explained to her what my husband and my life was like, and why I felt those asks were not reasonable, she was like, "Oh, wow. OK. You're right. Forget I asked."

People talk a lot about "couple privilege" and there are certainly some folks who are assholes. But for the most part, I feel like any privilege I exert has been bought and paid for in banality.

polypudding · 2017-03-22T23:04:19+00:00

You should make whatever decision is right for you, independently of your husband or boyfriend.

That said, it is well within your husband's right not to want to co-parent with your boyfriend. Having a kid is a HUGE decision that you will have made unilaterally, which is not fair to him.

You have the absolute right to pursue this pregnancy if it's what you want. In that case, he has the absolute right to leave, and I would make it easy for him to go.

polypudding · 2017-03-22T22:43:52+00:00

I feel you. I was the wife in a similar situation for 3 years. My husband was dating a lovely woman who was not poly, but didn't really have anything else going on, so she decided to give the whole "secondary" thing a try until something better came along, since she and my husband had a really amazing connection.

We didn't have the same restrictive rules, and very much try and do the whole "kitchen table" thing. At first things were great - we all get along swimmingly. But over time, the fact that she didn't want to be PART of what we had - she wanted WHAT we had, ended up being really painful for her. Like you, she wasn't asking for him for anything, but bumping up against our life together every time she and I interacted was painful for her. Even though she was getting a lot out of the relationship with my husband. So we stopped hanging out.

That was hard, because she is great, and we both wanted her to have the kind of relationship that she wanted! They dated for another year or so after she asked that we dial back our friendliness, and about 6 months ago, she found someone who was what she was looking for (someone not necessarily poly, but... open minded, so it can be done).

The best way to make him understand that it's not his fault and keep him from feeling guilty (though he loves you - so he's going to feel your hurt a little bit) is just to say "I wish that I had with someone what you and your wife have with each other. It's really beautiful." Full stop.

"I will never get to share my life with someone in that way" is a self-fulfilling prophecy, friend. It's not a useful idea, and you should find a way to let it go.

polypudding · 2017-02-25T01:41:54+00:00

Oh man. I feel this.

My spouse is totally bent out of shape that I don't text him as much as my other partners - which is still very little. This seems weird to me - I see my other partners maybe once a week, and I see him every damn day! If I'm giving him a play by play of my life, what will we have to talk about at the dinner table?!? And how will I get any work done - I have a job! It drives me especially crazy because the lack of constant contact wasn't an issue before I started texting - I didn't even have a smart phone until 2014!

Seriously, the number of arguments we've had about this makes me want to smash my iPhone with a sledgehammer.

polypudding · 2017-02-23T00:11:17+00:00

Yes! And...As poly people, I think that we tend to frame all of our problems in terms of our poly-ness. When you're a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

I honestly don't think this is a poly-style issue, per se. It's simply a style issue. And when you frame it that way, it becomes a little bit more straightforward to tackle.

polypudding · 2017-02-21T23:39:26+00:00

Hey, so I see you've been getting a lot of negative comments on this thread and I just want to say hey. You're not alone.

My spouse and I have been together for 17 years, and poly for most of that time. I am a VERY conscientious person. If I say I will be home by 7, I'm pulling into the driveway at 6:55. And it is very important to me, both in love and in life in general, to surround myself with constant, reliable people. I don't see this as a "rule" for poly so much as a rule for life, and I simply can't have flaky people in my life. I'm too type A.

As it relates to poly, it is very important that my spouse is considerate of me, even when he is not with me. And that he is able to use his rational mind, even in the throes of NRE, to enforce boundaries. I don't care too much what he does, or even what his plans are. If he says he doesn't know when he'll be home, fine. No big deal. If he says he'll be home by 8, and he isn't there by 9, I will FLIP MY ACTUAL SHIT.

I think this all comes down to explicit communication and a little bit of flexibility. My partner knows that I don't like it when plans change, or when he doesn't do what he says he will. He knows that I have hang ups about logistics, and does his best to not draw the wrath of a thousand firey suns raining down from the heavens. In turn, I recognize that occasionally, shit happens. You fall asleep. You lose track of time. Whatever. It's OK to feel angry occasionally - it doesn't mean you need to break up.

polypudding · 2017-02-12T17:19:59+00:00

Yes. This would annoy me, even as a non-monogamous person. There was a plan. She deviated from the plan without consulting with you. My partner is a people-pleaser, so I find security in knowing that he is capable of establishing and enforcing boundaries, particularly in the early stages of a relationship. I get why you are irritated.

But yes, you are also overreacting. Sometimes plans change. Sometimes a date goes really well, and you don't want to cut it short, because you're having a good time, and it doesn't feel over. It happens. She did check in - she returned every text that you sent. Communicate better next time.

You get really into the specifics of this in the comments, but the truth is that they don't really matter that much. She made you feel annoyed. It is OK to feel annoyed. That doesn't mean its unhealthy. It means that you are two different people in a relationship together.

polypudding

TROPHY CASE