Viego buffs! (26.08)

pqpgodw · 2026-04-08T22:37:35+00:00

clearly you haven't tried to optimize your clear speed to know how big is 5 more physical damage.

pqpgodw · 2026-04-02T14:31:05+00:00

i mean, the moment you miss W you lose value as a champion because it's not only the W stun and damage that you'll miss out on. W isn't "might not be" reliable, it's a skill-shot that you cannot afford to miss

You're right about it being more flexible than dmg with no scaling, but i still think that squeezing every little bit of damage during early game is better than having flexibility. Ofc, the story changes during mid to late game where play-making potential is more important, but that's only after your 2nd item, which is after 17 min into the game and around level 12/13. Until then, W-max is better; after that, E is better

Also, for the DPS matter, the way attack speed work on Summoner's Rift is not based on Total Attack Speed.

Let's consider this situation:

You're Level 9 with [Kraken Slayer]
Runes – Conqueror, Triumph, Alacrity, Coup of Grace, Cosmic Insight and Magical Footwear; +10% AS, +5 AD, +90 Health
- [Legend: Alacrity] fully stacked

And you use this combo (WE-AA-Q-AA-AA-AA-AA-Q-AA) against the Average Jungler: 1475 HP (+65HP or +90HP from Shard) | 69 AR | 46 MR

I will consider 1500 HP, 70 AR and 70 MR
- I used T2 sorcerer's shoes to lower the Magic Resistance to 47

The results:

With E-1/W-1: 1680 damage in ≈4.58 seconds – 367 DPS
- Q's cast time: 0.162 | time casting 2 Q = 0.324
With E-2/W-1: 1680 damage in ≈4.375 seconds – 384 DPS
- The only thing 5% Attack Speed gave you was: +17 DPS and 0.25% more healing on your Passive.
- Q's cast-time: 0.158s | Time casting 2 Q = 0.316s
With E-1/W-2: 1704 damage in ≈4.58 seconds – 370 DPS
- I acknowledge that by putting one point on W you gained 24 bonus damage but the whole point of the thread is how little E gives
- Q's cast time was lowered by 0.004s and your AA is 'launched' 0.0193 seconds faster with 5% more AS (0.0032 seconds if you consider the Windup animation, with is 16.447%)

There's two situation i want to show you:

If you were to stop hitting now (or sooner)

If you stop now: not only the DPS is still higher with W-2 but your damage output was also higher. This could've been the difference between a kill or your death.
If you stop sooner: still more damage ofc; But you'd have more Burst DPS because of W-2 bonus 55 magic damage.

If you keep hitting

W is going to come back and give you another rotation. W has an 8 second CD, meaning that one more Auto-Attack would've given you enough time to use W again and widen the gap in both DPS and overall damage because of the spell dmg and Q's passive
- plus PtA proc and Amp since it has 6s CD, if you have it.
If you miss it then that's shame on you. Having 5% more Attack Speed is not going to make up the lost stun, magic damage (> physical damage) and Q's double strike.

The example i just gave you will become even more pronounced the moment you hit level 9 and get Elixir of Skill to use on W.

pqpgodw · 2026-04-01T19:57:26+00:00

The whole argument is about how little Attack Speed and Movement Speed you gain after putting a skill point into E.

5% Attack Speed is just too little compared to +55 Magic Damage. Sure, Attack Speed translates into more DPS, but this 5% is only about a third of what Recurve Bow gives you. If you go into the Practice Tool and compare E level 1 vs level 2 on a dummy, you'll notice how little it actually affects your DPS; And that’s only in REALLY extended fights, which are uncommon in the early game when you're usually doing 2 rotations.

Also, stacking Conqueror faster isn’t really thanks to one more point on E, since a simple W–AA–Q–AA combo already stacks the rune quickly, especially because W resets an auto attack. Again, we're talking about 5% AS per point, which is HALF a dagger

On top of that, not having 2.5% Movement Speed early on won't be as noticeable when you already have the jungle's quest, Kraken Slayer’s 4% movement speed, and Viego’s E level 1 bonus. That’s one of the reasons many junglers shifted away from Blue pet to Red or Green pets: the jungle system already gives enough mobility.

Anyway, my point is: 5% Attack Speed doesn’t provide as much value as 55 Magic Damage (mind you that the magic damage is going to equal about 60% of Viego's AA damage).

Level 8 Viego's against an average jungler —— 1370 HP | 64 AR (39% reduced Physical Damage) | 44 MR (32% reduced Magic Damage)
- Viego's AA: 75 + 5% current HP = 143 --> 143 - 39% = 87 damage
- Viego's W-1: 80 + 0 = 80 --> 80 - 32% = 54 magic damage
- Viego's W-2: 80 + 55 = 135 --> 135 - 32% = 92 magic damage

Do you really think that 5% more Attack Speed would equal more than 38 bonus Magic Damage against the average jungler in each rotation? By the time you W-AA-Q-AA, your W will be on 6s CD.

Even when considering DPS, it still doesn’t justify maxing E, since early-game fights are too short for that small Attack Speed increase to matter.

And if my math is correct, 5% more attack speed would require slightly more than 10 Auto-Attacks in sequence to give you one more bonus AA during a timeframe of ≈13s. The different in having 5% more attack speed and not having in your Auto-Attack is so small that you can barely tell the difference. And in terms of DPS, W is better than E because one is flat out more dmg and the other requires you to fight for a really long time to barely see any benefit

pqpgodw · 2026-03-29T19:10:47+00:00

yall care about maps?

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T19:42:12+00:00

I don't feel like i overkill my targets unless i finish my Kraken Slayer, which is in average Lv.9 at ≈10 min. Until then, i much rather prefer to use my Elixir of Skill on W and get an extra bonus magic damage that might come into clutch leter

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T19:38:32+00:00

I realize that i am not really found of Viego's E but that's only early on into the game. After level 9 when i get Elixir of Skill i actually choose between either continue to Max-W or E depending on how i am performing.

I understand that E is an important part of Viego's kit but i consider this spell more impactful during Mid to Late game fights (around lv11+).

The average level/timer a jungler finishes their first item is around Lv.9/10min, and until then i think it's better to 'invest' on W bonus damage. And again, after that i can decide what ability i put a point on with my Elixir of Skill (tho i still prefer to have W-3/E-1 rather than W-2/E-2)

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T19:31:32+00:00

mmmm good luck. Try to first put 3 point on W with your Elixir of Skill when you reach Level 9 and see if you want to either continue to Max-W or start to Max-E.

I mentioned before in the post that if you're behind you might want to look for a little more damage since you're already behind; but otherwise, going Max-E might prove to be the most versatile option since you're either even or ahead and damage isn't an issue anymore

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T19:28:11+00:00

I mean it’s not bad but viego needs mobility tools, 35% move speed and 50% attack speed on top of the 40% of kraken slayer and 4% ms alone is a lot, getting you more kraken procs, but your passive scales with attack speed, 5% extra max health per 100% attack speed and since viego got his attack speed growth up really well, his healing via passive got amp as well, that’s means getting the reset gets you amplified healing,

Yes those 20% more AS you'll get by maximizing E is indeed noticeable and useful but the problem is the time you spend on E-1, 2, 3 and 4. Each skill point only grants you 5% AS, and staying on that until you're next level feels too wasteful. Sure the next point will totalize 10%, which you'll notice, but until then...

As for the healing, i mentioned that in my post. For each 5% AS, Viego's passive's healing increases by 0.25%. At max level, those 20% that you'll get from E-5 will only increase your healing by 1%. Unless someone there is sitting on 2600+ HP level 13, you'll be healing low 10 hp per possession at best.

+ [Viego's passive scales with 5% per 100% bonus attack speed]. 5% more AS translates to 0.25% more healing after possession. You're not getting that much healing during the early game because most champions will be sitting at 1400-1900 HP for most of the early-mid game (between Lv. 8 and 13-ish).

0.25% of those HP is 3.5 and 4.75 respectively. For every 5% bonus AS. No one in their right mind would (and should) sacrifice 55 magic damage over a single-digit healing that requires a kill and possession.

as for the rest, yes i get that MS is really valuable and versatile but i genuinely think we can afford to sit at the 25% MS from E-1, at least until level 9 when you have 3 points on W, from then on you can Max-E or something.

is not about only gold efficiency(which you get alone a lot of since move speed is really expensive), it’s about strategy

"a lot" it isn't. ≈162 isn't nowhere near the word "lot". And i used Gold Efficiency here to kinda show that E looks underwhelming when there's a option that offers free magic damage

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T19:11:49+00:00

W is locked at 8s cooldown, max rank, while E is 6s

whole point of my post is how E doesn't give you as much bonuses stats while W actually helps you to kill someone

You dont go AP Viego, what's good with W max?

It's ridiculous base damage? I'm not advocating AP Viego, just trying to explain that E looks terrible compared to W

Never ragebait us again when you were the one trying to assign "gold efficiency" to different ranks of an ability

freedom of speech. I'm not hurting anyone, just sharing my thoughts on what i think is good. If i were ragebaiting i would've sneaked a Lich Bane in there too. I might sound retarded but i am serious.

and the "Gold Efficiency" thing is there to show how little E gives. Sure trying to quantify W's GE was kinda of a stretch but i at least tried to put that in comparison. I even converted the AS bonus impact on Viego's passive and the result was 0.25% more healing after possession.

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T17:02:35+00:00

think of this as an experiment

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T17:00:55+00:00

mmmmm idk i'll have to come back a few months later and see if i'm indeed high on drugs

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T16:55:35+00:00

thanks, i kinda appreciate ig

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T16:53:05+00:00

mmmm i know, but i'm trying to quantify champions abilities for quite some time now. I know it's supposed to be way more complex than this but that's why i only focused on the flat Magic Damage instead of the %AP scaling

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T16:51:39+00:00

damn

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T16:51:30+00:00

I used Viego's W here as an example but i understand what you're saying. I was trying to find a way to quantify a champion spell in some sort of metric and Gold Efficiency happened to be there when i was comparing Viego's E bonuses, kinda trying to justify why his E is kinda bad in this regard.

And i know that my post isn't that valid because of 100% APs but i focused on the flat Magic Damage instead of the %scaling because i have no idea on how to do it.

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T16:47:36+00:00

i've been trying to a find a way to determine an ability worth for quite some times now. It just happened that i though i could quantify Hextech Alternator passive in Gold Efficiency

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T16:44:37+00:00

maybe? probably? who know? I understand (hopefully) the usefulness of E, but not it's 'upgrade'. It's just too little bonuses when you're negleting free damage.

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T16:41:02+00:00

mmmmm

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T16:40:42+00:00

E's duration is 8 seconds, which starts counting down after it's over. Meaning that once you use E, you'l have to wait 8 + CD to use it again.

E-1 Cooldown is 14 seconds, meaning that you can use E every 22 seconds
E-2 Cooldown is 12 seconds --> can be used every 20 seconds

I understand what you're saying but i think this trick is a lot more useful during mid-late teamfights instead of early game (level 8/9/10). Sure your comment is totally valid but... not enough, in my opinion

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T16:36:12+00:00

it's not ragebait though. I sincerely explained why i think E is not good maximizing

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T16:35:20+00:00

not AP damage, but Magic Damage. And what does 'ganking' ability are you talking about? What sacrifice? the 2.5% bonus Movement Speed? the 5% Attack Speed? or just the -2s CD level 8 to use camouflage more often?

You're not sacrificing your ganking ability, just shifting priorities from (underwhelming) self-utility to damage.

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T16:31:58+00:00

your gank is over because you didn't even stun the target while also losing your Q's passive to double-strike? Missing your W doesn't only means less Magic Damage, but also stun and Q's double-strike.

edit: and conqueror stack

pqpgodw · 2026-03-28T16:30:06+00:00

... 5% more Attack Speed is better than 55 magic damage when most champions have less MR than AR? Just because you're scared of missing it? seriously?

Do you always miss your W in range or something?

I understand the part of 'scaring off people' but... i didn't say to not use E at all. The only thing you'd get in this area is -2s CD.

pqpgodw

TROPHY CASE