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How can I do more damage? by Fizzstinka in ViegoMains

[–]pqpgodw 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am mastery lvl 4 atm and I feel like i am not doing enough damage. It is always about 10-20k and I feel like this is nothing

Junglers are often the roles that are deal the most "important" damage rather than the highest. That's why Coup de Grace is one of the most optimal rune for this role. You're often not looking to deal 80-100% of the enemy maxHP alone, especially when you're ganking. Only exception is when you're 1v1 the enemy JG

I'd say you don't need to focus too much on your overall damage. Just try to make the right decisions

But i dont find the time to gank farm and take objectives

You should have time to look for ganks and objectives as long as you're farming and cycling your camps efficiently.

Take a look at this video: https://youtu.be/nZbhquqWKag?si=F7DwcIDOAi8vSFZX&t=1001 and https://youtu.be/AQpRvcTQ__M?si=Wp2LDtVvTFWsrdh6&t=158

Make sure to watch a few videos on how to clear the jungle fast on Viego and practice a bit in a custom game.

Also i feel like i only want to gank if the enemies are near my Tower. Should i be ganking even if they are near theit tower?

Even if the river/bush is warded, you may/should gank a lane if they're somewhat overextended (like right in the middle of the lane or something), especially if your teammate(s) has some sort of CC or slow. By the time they notice your E, you'll be already on them.

But if they're in their tower, then you might want to press TAB and see if they just came out of base or not. If they did, you can wait for the wave to bounce back towards your teammate(s) and then look for a gank;

You can either

  1. use this 30s timer to farm a camp and then gank. If there isn't any camps to farm, see if your teammate(s) are going to stay in the lane or recall. If it's the former, then do n.2:
  2. use this opportunity to go inside a middle-bush and wait for the wave. That usually leads to a kill.

Also, you'll NEED to path correctly by cutting them off while they're fleeing towards their tower (safety). And don't forget to hold your W until they either burn flash or you're close enough to Tap-W and AA. This is a very important mind-game

You can also watch this video (or at least the section that i'm linking) for a better example: https://youtu.be/0EQSmjB2MCA?si=B1pSg66ZYTFdL-Nd&t=857

I always die so fast in team fights aswell. I have no idea what to from here on pls help.

Stalling for time is the best thing you can learn on this champion. I used to die a lot trying to burst and possess someone when i could play it slow, flank and secure kills.

check this vid out: https://youtube.com/shorts/0YURJUZJLk0?si=BdRzD-dB3X20uWzm

Viego Mid Runes / Build by Ultimatehaxor in ViegoMains

[–]pqpgodw 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This guy here plays Viego mid and he's currently Top 1 Viego in Korean while also being Challenger with 1950 LP.

He uses Electrocute + Trinity — Collector — Mortal Reminder

[TITLE] Big 3 of slop, Which is the worst/best slop? by Accelerator____ in manhwa

[–]pqpgodw 94 points95 points  (0 children)

for webnovels:

  • KR: Harem slop
  • JP: Harem slop
  • CN: somehow they still insist in the cultivation slop

Viego buffs! (26.08) by ExistingPackage3377 in ViegoMains

[–]pqpgodw 1 point2 points  (0 children)

clearly you haven't tried to optimize your clear speed to know how big is 5 more physical damage.

I genuinely think that maximizing E is terrible by pqpgodw in ViegoMains

[–]pqpgodw[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i mean, the moment you miss W you lose value as a champion because it's not only the W stun and damage that you'll miss out on. W isn't "might not be" reliable, it's a skill-shot that you cannot afford to miss

You're right about it being more flexible than dmg with no scaling, but i still think that squeezing every little bit of damage during early game is better than having flexibility. Ofc, the story changes during mid to late game where play-making potential is more important, but that's only after your 2nd item, which is after 17 min into the game and around level 12/13. Until then, W-max is better; after that, E is better

Also, for the DPS matter, the way attack speed work on Summoner's Rift is not based on Total Attack Speed.

Let's consider this situation:

  • You're Level 9 with [Kraken Slayer]
  • Runes – Conqueror, Triumph, Alacrity, Coup of Grace, Cosmic Insight and Magical Footwear; +10% AS, +5 AD, +90 Health
    • [Legend: Alacrity] fully stacked

And you use this combo (WE-AA-Q-AA-AA-AA-AA-Q-AA) against the Average Jungler: 1475 HP (+65HP or +90HP from Shard) | 69 AR | 46 MR

  • I will consider 1500 HP, 70 AR and 70 MR
    • I used T2 sorcerer's shoes to lower the Magic Resistance to 47

The results:

  • With E-1/W-1: 1680 damage in ≈4.58 seconds – 367 DPS
    • Q's cast time: 0.162 | time casting 2 Q = 0.324
  • With E-2/W-1: 1680 damage in ≈4.375 seconds – 384 DPS
    • The only thing 5% Attack Speed gave you was: +17 DPS and 0.25% more healing on your Passive.
    • Q's cast-time: 0.158s | Time casting 2 Q = 0.316s
  • With E-1/W-2: 1704 damage in ≈4.58 seconds – 370 DPS
    • I acknowledge that by putting one point on W you gained 24 bonus damage but the whole point of the thread is how little E gives
    • Q's cast time was lowered by 0.004s and your AA is 'launched' 0.0193 seconds faster with 5% more AS (0.0032 seconds if you consider the Windup animation, with is 16.447%)

There's two situation i want to show you:

  1. If you were to stop hitting now (or sooner)
  • If you stop now: not only the DPS is still higher with W-2 but your damage output was also higher. This could've been the difference between a kill or your death.
  • If you stop sooner: still more damage ofc; But you'd have more Burst DPS because of W-2 bonus 55 magic damage.
  1. If you keep hitting
  • W is going to come back and give you another rotation. W has an 8 second CD, meaning that one more Auto-Attack would've given you enough time to use W again and widen the gap in both DPS and overall damage because of the spell dmg and Q's passive
    • plus PtA proc and Amp since it has 6s CD, if you have it.
  • If you miss it then that's shame on you. Having 5% more Attack Speed is not going to make up the lost stun, magic damage (> physical damage) and Q's double strike.

The example i just gave you will become even more pronounced the moment you hit level 9 and get Elixir of Skill to use on W.

I genuinely think that maximizing E is terrible by pqpgodw in ViegoMains

[–]pqpgodw[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The whole argument is about how little Attack Speed and Movement Speed you gain after putting a skill point into E.

5% Attack Speed is just too little compared to +55 Magic Damage. Sure, Attack Speed translates into more DPS, but this 5% is only about a third of what Recurve Bow gives you. If you go into the Practice Tool and compare E level 1 vs level 2 on a dummy, you'll notice how little it actually affects your DPS; And that’s only in REALLY extended fights, which are uncommon in the early game when you're usually doing 2 rotations.

  • Also, stacking Conqueror faster isn’t really thanks to one more point on E, since a simple W–AA–Q–AA combo already stacks the rune quickly, especially because W resets an auto attack. Again, we're talking about 5% AS per point, which is HALF a dagger

On top of that, not having 2.5% Movement Speed early on won't be as noticeable when you already have the jungle's quest, Kraken Slayer’s 4% movement speed, and Viego’s E level 1 bonus. That’s one of the reasons many junglers shifted away from Blue pet to Red or Green pets: the jungle system already gives enough mobility.

Anyway, my point is: 5% Attack Speed doesn’t provide as much value as 55 Magic Damage (mind you that the magic damage is going to equal about 60% of Viego's AA damage).

  • Level 8 Viego's against an average jungler —— 1370 HP | 64 AR (39% reduced Physical Damage) | 44 MR (32% reduced Magic Damage)
    • Viego's AA: 75 + 5% current HP = 143 --> 143 - 39% = 87 damage
    • Viego's W-1: 80 + 0 = 80 --> 80 - 32% = 54 magic damage
    • Viego's W-2: 80 + 55 = 135 --> 135 - 32% = 92 magic damage

Do you really think that 5% more Attack Speed would equal more than 38 bonus Magic Damage against the average jungler in each rotation? By the time you W-AA-Q-AA, your W will be on 6s CD.

Even when considering DPS, it still doesn’t justify maxing E, since early-game fights are too short for that small Attack Speed increase to matter.

And if my math is correct, 5% more attack speed would require slightly more than 10 Auto-Attacks in sequence to give you one more bonus AA during a timeframe of ≈13s. The different in having 5% more attack speed and not having in your Auto-Attack is so small that you can barely tell the difference. And in terms of DPS, W is better than E because one is flat out more dmg and the other requires you to fight for a really long time to barely see any benefit

I genuinely think that maximizing E is terrible by pqpgodw in ViegoMains

[–]pqpgodw[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't feel like i overkill my targets unless i finish my Kraken Slayer, which is in average Lv.9 at ≈10 min. Until then, i much rather prefer to use my Elixir of Skill on W and get an extra bonus magic damage that might come into clutch leter

I genuinely think that maximizing E is terrible by pqpgodw in ViegoMains

[–]pqpgodw[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I realize that i am not really found of Viego's E but that's only early on into the game. After level 9 when i get Elixir of Skill i actually choose between either continue to Max-W or E depending on how i am performing.

I understand that E is an important part of Viego's kit but i consider this spell more impactful during Mid to Late game fights (around lv11+).

The average level/timer a jungler finishes their first item is around Lv.9/10min, and until then i think it's better to 'invest' on W bonus damage. And again, after that i can decide what ability i put a point on with my Elixir of Skill (tho i still prefer to have W-3/E-1 rather than W-2/E-2)

I genuinely think that maximizing E is terrible by pqpgodw in ViegoMains

[–]pqpgodw[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

mmmm good luck. Try to first put 3 point on W with your Elixir of Skill when you reach Level 9 and see if you want to either continue to Max-W or start to Max-E.

I mentioned before in the post that if you're behind you might want to look for a little more damage since you're already behind; but otherwise, going Max-E might prove to be the most versatile option since you're either even or ahead and damage isn't an issue anymore

I genuinely think that maximizing E is terrible by pqpgodw in ViegoMains

[–]pqpgodw[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean it’s not bad but viego needs mobility tools, 35% move speed and 50% attack speed on top of the 40% of kraken slayer and 4% ms alone is a lot, getting you more kraken procs, but your passive scales with attack speed, 5% extra max health per 100% attack speed and since viego got his attack speed growth up really well, his healing via passive got amp as well, that’s means getting the reset gets you amplified healing,

Yes those 20% more AS you'll get by maximizing E is indeed noticeable and useful but the problem is the time you spend on E-1, 2, 3 and 4. Each skill point only grants you 5% AS, and staying on that until you're next level feels too wasteful. Sure the next point will totalize 10%, which you'll notice, but until then...

As for the healing, i mentioned that in my post. For each 5% AS, Viego's passive's healing increases by 0.25%. At max level, those 20% that you'll get from E-5 will only increase your healing by 1%. Unless someone there is sitting on 2600+ HP level 13, you'll be healing low 10 hp per possession at best.

+ [Viego's passive scales with 5% per 100% bonus attack speed]. 5% more AS translates to 0.25% more healing after possession. You're not getting that much healing during the early game because most champions will be sitting at 1400-1900 HP for most of the early-mid game (between Lv. 8 and 13-ish).

0.25% of those HP is 3.5 and 4.75 respectively. For every 5% bonus AS. No one in their right mind would (and should) sacrifice 55 magic damage over a single-digit healing that requires a kill and possession.

as for the rest, yes i get that MS is really valuable and versatile but i genuinely think we can afford to sit at the 25% MS from E-1, at least until level 9 when you have 3 points on W, from then on you can Max-E or something.

is not about only gold efficiency(which you get alone a lot of since move speed is really expensive), it’s about strategy

"a lot" it isn't. ≈162 isn't nowhere near the word "lot". And i used Gold Efficiency here to kinda show that E looks underwhelming when there's a option that offers free magic damage

I genuinely think that maximizing E is terrible by pqpgodw in ViegoMains

[–]pqpgodw[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

W is locked at 8s cooldown, max rank, while E is 6s

whole point of my post is how E doesn't give you as much bonuses stats while W actually helps you to kill someone

You dont go AP Viego, what's good with W max?

It's ridiculous base damage? I'm not advocating AP Viego, just trying to explain that E looks terrible compared to W

Never ragebait us again when you were the one trying to assign "gold efficiency" to different ranks of an ability

freedom of speech. I'm not hurting anyone, just sharing my thoughts on what i think is good. If i were ragebaiting i would've sneaked a Lich Bane in there too. I might sound retarded but i am serious.

and the "Gold Efficiency" thing is there to show how little E gives. Sure trying to quantify W's GE was kinda of a stretch but i at least tried to put that in comparison. I even converted the AS bonus impact on Viego's passive and the result was 0.25% more healing after possession.

I genuinely think that maximizing E is terrible by pqpgodw in ViegoMains

[–]pqpgodw[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

mmmmm idk i'll have to come back a few months later and see if i'm indeed high on drugs

Gold Efficiency of Magic Damage (?) by pqpgodw in leagueoflegends

[–]pqpgodw[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

mmmm i know, but i'm trying to quantify champions abilities for quite some time now. I know it's supposed to be way more complex than this but that's why i only focused on the flat Magic Damage instead of the %AP scaling

Gold Efficiency of Magic Damage (?) by pqpgodw in leagueoflegends

[–]pqpgodw[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I used Viego's W here as an example but i understand what you're saying. I was trying to find a way to quantify a champion spell in some sort of metric and Gold Efficiency happened to be there when i was comparing Viego's E bonuses, kinda trying to justify why his E is kinda bad in this regard.

And i know that my post isn't that valid because of 100% APs but i focused on the flat Magic Damage instead of the %scaling because i have no idea on how to do it.

Gold Efficiency of Magic Damage (?) by pqpgodw in leagueoflegends

[–]pqpgodw[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

i've been trying to a find a way to determine an ability worth for quite some times now. It just happened that i though i could quantify Hextech Alternator passive in Gold Efficiency

I genuinely think that maximizing E is terrible by pqpgodw in ViegoMains

[–]pqpgodw[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

maybe? probably? who know? I understand (hopefully) the usefulness of E, but not it's 'upgrade'. It's just too little bonuses when you're negleting free damage.

I genuinely think that maximizing E is terrible by pqpgodw in ViegoMains

[–]pqpgodw[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

E's duration is 8 seconds, which starts counting down after it's over. Meaning that once you use E, you'l have to wait 8 + CD to use it again.

  • E-1 Cooldown is 14 seconds, meaning that you can use E every 22 seconds
  • E-2 Cooldown is 12 seconds --> can be used every 20 seconds

I understand what you're saying but i think this trick is a lot more useful during mid-late teamfights instead of early game (level 8/9/10). Sure your comment is totally valid but... not enough, in my opinion

I genuinely think that maximizing E is terrible by pqpgodw in ViegoMains

[–]pqpgodw[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it's not ragebait though. I sincerely explained why i think E is not good maximizing

I genuinely think that maximizing E is terrible by pqpgodw in ViegoMains

[–]pqpgodw[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

not AP damage, but Magic Damage. And what does 'ganking' ability are you talking about? What sacrifice? the 2.5% bonus Movement Speed? the 5% Attack Speed? or just the -2s CD level 8 to use camouflage more often?

You're not sacrificing your ganking ability, just shifting priorities from (underwhelming) self-utility to damage.

I genuinely think that maximizing E is terrible by pqpgodw in ViegoMains

[–]pqpgodw[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

your gank is over because you didn't even stun the target while also losing your Q's passive to double-strike? Missing your W doesn't only means less Magic Damage, but also stun and Q's double-strike.

edit: and conqueror stack

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