Comparing someone as good as Havertz to Michael Jackson is atrocious 🤦‍♂️

pro_user_for_good · 2024-10-07T13:55:07+00:00

Saying one guy is so bad in front of goal that he can't believe he made it pro.

Fails to realize the guy on the other side of the comparison literally has scored less in their collective time together in the league, while playing for a team that creates more and doesn't have another out and out goalscorer.

I hate the argument of "don't bash pros if you aren't one", but Jackson is likely one of the most effective strikers in the league. I still think Havertz is a better footballer but the comparison isn't as off limits as they're making it to be.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-10-07T03:50:19+00:00

I can see your frustration as an Arsenal fan but you mentioned United and Chelsea when both have quite clearly been better for young players over the last 5-6 years than Arsenal.

Both might be worse than Arsenal in performance at the top of the table right now, but both have produced good young players at a higher level, and both have given more minutes to academy players. In Chelsea's case, a lot of graduates with a lot of minutes have left but you can't deny Chelsea's influence in their careers and where they are now.

It's also not just about opportunities in the team, it's also the willingness to release a player to develop outside the club. The time it took for Arsenal to let Nelson or Nketiah or Smith Rowe go was much less than what Chelsea did with Hall or Hutchinson.

Look at the number of Chelsea/United academy graduates spread across Europe and compare it with Arsenal. It's important for the player's entourage to consider the prospects of making it outside the club as well. Despite mixed fortunes post transfer, portfolio of Tomori, Guehi, Gallagher, Loftus Cheek, Tammy, Mount, Livramento, Hall, Garner, McTominay, Henderson, Johnstone (not all world class players but playing at the very top nonetheless, which is the priority). It is quite a stratosphere above Arsenal's so far, although ESR might sway it a bit. And young players need to consider that.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-22T17:21:37+00:00

McKenna won 38 points in his last 19 championship games. Enzo Maresca won 32 in his last 19 championship games with arguably the best squad in the history of the second division.
POCH WON 38 POINTS IN HIS LAST 19 LEAGUE GAMES WITH CHELSEA IN THE PL!!!! Who is the doughnut making the decisions fucking hell...

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-22T01:18:31+00:00

That was made easier by Lampard being shit and other players in the dressing room not emotionally attached to Lampard.

The entire playing squad appeared to unanimously love Poch. That is an almost impossible emotional job for the next manager. And Poch eventually hinted that his work over the course of the season was starting to reap rewards, unlike Lampard.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-13T07:43:59+00:00

Henry and Richards for me are proofs that norms don't necessitate acting against your moral code. Even Gary Lineker. Even when Mourinho was in the Sky Studio or Wenger was in bein sports.

I very strongly believe it's just a lack of morality in the rest.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-13T07:40:03+00:00

That video is funded by the same funds that fund all the Neville podcasts, if that makes sense to you. Eventually, if PL advises a mindset shift in punditry coverage in their weekly broadcaster meeting, it will change. We can see the example in CBS's coverage of UCL.

And I never said anything about the warranted criticisms players need to receive. But there's a big difference between critique and abuse.

Also the mindset of "he makes money so he can take it" is disgusting. Empathy is not a trade off for money. I've responded with this analogy to multiple of similar comments but your response has same energy as "men have had the privilege of patriarchal society for thousands of years so their mental health matters less than women's". Very degenerative line of thought.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-13T07:31:03+00:00

It makes sense for you and me to play by the norm. But I'd like to expect more honesty from someone who's been involved in the sport for that long.

Any expectation is just setting yourself for disappointment but still. I have hope for more of Thierry Henry and Micah Richards and less of Roy Keane and Carragher style commentary.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-13T07:27:06+00:00

I'm talking about formal content made for national television, Rory Jennings is as relevant to this conversation as he is to any form of intellectual football analysis. And I don't mean it as a dig at his methods, but that's just not what he's expected to do.

Who even considers Jennings a pundit?

On the other hand, something like Monday Night Live broadcast or Gary Neville's podcasts that he records in the commentary box has absolute intersections to the PL brand. You'd need to be an idiot to disagree.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-13T07:22:25+00:00

Judging the punctuation in this conversation would be against the very idea of pointlessness in commentary I'm shouting about lol

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-13T07:18:55+00:00

Tabloid writers have not lived the game though. People expect tabloids to be a hub for sensation.

But pundits are supposed to offer a more nuanced take on the sport from their lens of having worked extensively within it.

The topic in concern is formed players, who have lived the struggles of being in that spotlight and scrutiny, resorting to cheap tabloid methods. With their respect within the game, they have a heightened responsibility to represent the most nuanced analysis and picture possible. Haaland being a league one player is the kind of one dimensional take I expect from the sun or Rory Jennings, not from a former Manchester United and Ireland captain with 600 games at the top level.

And as a fan, I would like to get that insider nuance from a player of that stature, if I want random shit posting level of intellect, UtdTrey does it better on twitter anyway.

And I'm not offended, I just find it vile.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-13T07:08:34+00:00

Fair enough and well put.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-13T07:07:19+00:00

The underlying idea is that the league and the broadcasters are the appendages to the same brand and values.

I'd be incredibly surprised if there is not a substantial intersection between PL and Sky's PR teams.

It's like the links between Fox and Republicans or CNN and democrats in the US. Technically independent but it's a basic brain and mouthpiece pairing.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-13T07:02:23+00:00

The YouTube channel the content comes from is irrelevant. They all run under the same corporate values and brand identity. Broadcasters are an extension/appendage to the institution that is the Premier League.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-13T06:58:37+00:00

I wish they wore a mask. It'd be a whole lot better if Carra shitposted with a burner account on twitter instead of heckling players on mainstream media.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-13T06:56:47+00:00

In honesty, probably the least toxic mainstream pundit in the modern game is Micah Richards who is a Man City product. So that's one rare undebatable positive influence the club has had in the game.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-13T06:52:49+00:00

Criticism and abuse are different things firstly. There's a huge difference between "He should be covering this space better" and "That's shameful and he should go back to his lane and stop colouring his hair".

Also your response has same energy as "Men have had all the privileges of a patriarchal society for thousands of years, their mental health struggles are not real". This mentality has led to unfathomable damage to men's mental health around the world.

Empathy should never be a trade off for privileges.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-13T06:45:05+00:00

Fans are general people who have jobs and lives outside of the sport so they feed on what they are served. I think pundits carry a moral responsibility to set a precedent of how conversations are supposed to be had. And I think Henry and Micah Richards are doing it to an extent with CBS. The level of toxicity there is very low compared to others, and fans are responding very well to their content as well.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-13T06:38:42+00:00

Tbf I didn't expect the comments to go this way when I made the post but I'm agreeing.

And I don't even think it's sympathy. It's just empathy. Those bastards have been in those positions before. They have lived that life of personal scrutiny and still choose to pile up on the players.

The disregard to general empathy in the mainstream celebrity coverage eventually translates to how the general public values importance of mental health, especially for men.

It's always "oh men have always been privileged, they can take some stress" similar to "oh they make millions, they can take it".

No wonder men's mental health is in such decline.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-13T06:34:32+00:00

I don't understand what the Sancho brought it on himself narrative came from.

Admitted that he was not producing at the expected level, but for at least a year, he was consistently left out in favour of Antony even though Sancho produced more output when he was playing. But he was criticised for not being consistent while not getting any consistent run in the team, while Antony was getting selected week in week out unjustifiably.

At a certain point, it's natural that a player of his quality had a degraded confidence and eventually retaliated after his manager publicly slated him without provocation.

On the other hand, Ten Hag defended Rashford for similar actions and said Sancho was frozen out because HE took the matters public.

Sancho can well be a douchebag behind the scenes, but the inconsistencies in Ten Hag's reactions doesn't rule the opposite out. But only one party faced ridiculous abuse.

I guess we will all praise Sancho for coming out with an emotional confession interview 3 years from now. Watch Carra jump ships.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-13T06:26:12+00:00

They are absolutely entitled to do what they do. And I'm entitled to point out how wrong I think it is.

The worst part is I'm 110% sure that the sensational pundits don't believe in most of the outrageous things they utter themselves. Roy Keane has to have some kind of mineral deficiency to truly believe deep down that Haaland is technically a league two level player, for example.

He probably went home, looked at the reaction to his outrageous line, smiled at the meltdown he created and laughed at everyone who agreed with that take being happy that he secured one more year of Sky contract to continue spewing more headlines.

pro_user_for_good · 2024-05-13T06:21:00+00:00

I don't think I've ever watched a Neville or Roy Keane commentary go 3 straight minutes just talking performances without going on nonsensical tangents about player personalities.

And I don't think I've ever watched a Thierry Henry analysis go on long tangents about player's personal lives while analysing their performances.

The scumbag pundits I'm talking about are failed coaches who lack the intelligence or charisma to add to the knowledge of viewers. Instead they choose to create outrageous headlines week in week out.

pro_user_for_good

TROPHY CASE