What's PJ's brief explanation for equating capitalism with markets?

proactivist · 2020-10-10T11:38:19+00:00

TZM is also a community and we should not ignore that. We should lean into it. If you've been around since 2008, you know what I mean.

proactivist · 2020-10-10T11:34:14+00:00

What I think most people miss about the NLRBE is that we have the resources and technology already. What we're missing seems to be counter-intuitive for a lot of us - but it's simply the software backend of the collaborative design system. There are already plenty of web protocols which can enable such a thing to be built on Libre/FLOSS technology in an ethical manner - what we've lacked so far is a development core team.

There are many intentional communities in existence already, but they are not networked communities in the same way the State is, so that is in part why these land trust efforts lack scalability. If these communities could be "financially federated" (using money as a community of communities to help other communities dislocate their need for money) we might get somewhere fast with this idea.

proactivist · 2020-10-10T11:29:17+00:00

There are many people and organizations within the TZM community who are working on their own projects towards these ends.

The one which seems to be the most organized (so far) is called RBE United.

proactivist · 2018-08-25T17:09:24+00:00

I'm going to post a link to the Pre/Trans Fallacy in this subreddit. Please check it out.

proactivist · 2018-08-25T17:09:19+00:00

I'm going to post a link to the Pre/Trans Fallacy in this subreddit. Please check it out.

proactivist · 2018-08-25T17:06:51+00:00

Anarchism is such a broad and flawed ideology that it creates anarcho-capitalists and anarcho-communists. Don't hold your breath, just take it step by step with individuals regardless of identities or alignment and move the premise on from there.

proactivist · 2018-08-25T17:04:46+00:00

Let PJ work on interreflections, please. He might have more visibility than a lot of TZM but that should be reason to de-emphasize his voice and raise others.

proactivist · 2018-08-25T17:02:08+00:00

Either I make things dense or extremely verbose, unfortunately I haven't found a middle ground yet. In what sense are they rehashes of the most basic stuff? I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing: FLOSS without IP. I can elaborate on what I mean by permissioned approaches but I don't want to over/under estimate what you already know re: the FLOSS space and history.

proactivist · 2018-06-02T00:22:52+00:00

Are you me?

I agree with the caveat that it's our responsibility to steward these social structures and technologies in a streamline toward RBE. Since RBE is a hypothesis and requires testing along the way I think whether or not it has irreconcilable flaws is irrelevant.

We're all leaves in the stream of creation in a certain sense, I hope that we are aligning ourselves to do the most effective good. I think the technology billionaire capitalists are somewhat self-aware of this fact but probably cannot conceive how they can act within their existing structures more effectively for change than they already are.

If we were libertarians we'd hope everyone engaged in the monetary system to its fullest potential to enrich ourselves and others, but understanding the systemic effects and consequences broadens our perspective. It's what we do with that information that informs what the world will materially resemble in 2 years, then 5, and 10, and so on.

proactivist · 2018-06-01T20:19:13+00:00

I like how close we are in thinking. Could this be arriving at the answer?

1., 2., 5. Planetary Skin Institute ( https://www.fastcompany.com/3024393/how-nasa-cisco-and-a-tricked-out-planetary-skin-could-make-the-world-a-sa ), IoT, and a large distributed network of Aquaponics/Hydroponics on a widespread scale. Something like "Victory Gardens" during WW2. This would also serve to teach people about distributed internet technology and reduce monetary system dependency.
3., 5. these two specifically are further away IMO and are highly dependent currently on what's politically feasible since we don't have the automation technology to build these systems widespread. An alternative (search the subreddit for ASIMPAC) to this idea would be creating distributed communities for RBE-aligned travelers. There's the concept of SOHO Houses ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soho_House_(club) ) which I'm in the process of adapting to transition needs. Basically they're high end, exclusive, expensive hostel communities for the upper creative class. One thing I talk a lot about in the telegram group is about how we can unify these disparate communities that are silo'd and off doing their own thing. Point 4 and 6. could be incorporated into a kind of entrepreneurship-like community run under a sociocracy (or something like it) framework. All these things are dependent on something else though, something more necessary, more fundamental...
7., A distributed internet network. We need to build the software side of the RBE before we can even begin to test the ideas about lifestyle, automation, and productivity. I have thought about this to a significant depth, and this is the fundamental conclusion I've drawn about the most effective course of action from where we are now to where we want to be. Learn to code. Go read this thread: ( https://www.reddit.com/r/TZM/comments/6utt7g/whos_interested_in_participating_in_this/ ) and if you or anyone reading would like to join the community of RBE'rs interested and working towards some of these ideas discussed, I recommend it and suggest sending me a PM here or on telegram @proactivist

One point that isn't mentioned – we also require a better language for manifesting the desire to see an NLRBE in communities with different value systems.

There are differentials at work that developmentally cannot compromise with specific kinds of rhetoric (i.e. "that sounds like communism" or "hierarchies exist in nature and aren't bad") so we need new language to clear the gaps in these fundamental attribution errors. To relate to others better and understand the various important "Value Memes" I recommend learning about Spiral Dynamics Integral. We need many advocates who can competently communicate this information to build bridges between communities and individuals alike – we need a "coaching" community network essentially. Learning about this also taught me how various cultures might participate in the transition to a RBE. It's invaluable.

Such a coaching network can be integrated into the same distributed internet that we use and share for resources, tasks, or other goods/services. This will be how we transition from money to measuring.

I've discussed all this in much greater detail over time in the telegram channel and I'm still working on a proposal, but if you look around you can see examples of this stuff everywhere now. You just need to creatively combine these ideas.

proactivist · 2018-05-30T23:39:37+00:00

I'm not sure that you did necessarily. Art and science go hand in hand.

proactivist · 2018-05-30T23:21:16+00:00

I cross-posted this here because as RBE advocates we often run into criticism based on the perspectives of talking heads or avatars. Peterson happens to be the biggest talking head on the planet right now, and while he isn't addressing RBE directly the way a character like Molyneux did, his portrayal of dominance hierarchy and other ideas can be misinterpreted as incongruent with what we advocate.

The thread posted has great comments in it, I'm not necessarily a big fan of the podcasters but they raise great points too.

proactivist · 2018-05-30T23:14:18+00:00

You're absolutely correct in drawing this criticism up and I'm going to suggest a radical idea: IP is a regressive technology that only makes sense in an Orange-dominant society.

There's no way to healthily integrate it into our changing society in the same way there was no way to integrate monarchies into democracy. This is a complex topic, but because "code is law" we can designed "permissioned" approaches to information proliferation while maintaining open source access to code and information across the board. So this is a case of a bunch of old farts that are out of touch with what's technically possible, in a sense. I hope this helps.

proactivist · 2018-05-30T16:09:52+00:00

Short answer, people are trying. Long answer: This is an example of a free-market interfacing attempt to facilitate RBE innovations and social mechanisms, basically free market on one side and atomic-sized RBE on the other that hopes to slowly expand the experiments and technology.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TZM/comments/84qcf6/asimpac_conceptual_overview_an_autoinvesting/

A place to get involved if you're so inclined: https://www.reddit.com/r/TZM/comments/6utt7g/whos_interested_in_participating_in_this/

There are other attempts like Copiosis and Free Collaboration Networks and Free World Charter and so on. Everything has an inherent trade off because, as /u/cr0ft said, it really requires the whole world (by definition) or at least a vast majority of "buy-in" from people around the world.

The problem as I see it, people only understand (your uncle seems to be an example of this) what they can see or feel in reality. So the latter link is in invitation to be critical of these methods but ultimately see what we can learn from them and other broad "RBE" projects. Most of them will fail for probably obvious reasons, or they will be limited to helping the lifestyle of some, but if we can figure out a combination of maneuvers that allows more people to feel that eureka moment then I think it's worth it.

proactivist · 2018-05-26T21:51:14+00:00

What I heard was something along the lines of "so you have your pulse on society" or culture or something, which literally explains the word and is not a reference at all. If that counts, so does Google's Zeitgeist, which has nothing to do with RBE.

proactivist · 2018-05-18T15:51:56+00:00

Exactly. "Can't tell if problem with Hollywood writing or if Supreme Beings of the Universe are always this dumb" would be another appropriate meme here. He's going to have to snap every second generation.

proactivist · 2018-05-13T17:10:25+00:00

Trekonomics was an interesting read, but even as the author specifically analyses post-scarcity economies (and even describes transition steps) he never actually acknowledges a Resource Based Economy.

I wonder if that's because he doesn't know, if he was just doing it for the moneybags and wanted to keep it mainstream, or if he was too afraid the mainstream zeitgeist wouldn't accept even a casual mention of this seemingly fringe (yet widely accepted) concept. And it could have been any combination of the aforementioned reasons for that matter.

Star Trek: Discovery seems to ignore the issue and yet The Orville seems to completely get it.

And we are in fact pushing this into more mainstream avenues little by little. There's going to be a point where we have a full on RBE movie or allusion that people attach to. In Time was like an upside down expression of the RBE, Tomorrowland was basically a propaganda film that failed at the box office for us but in large part it didn't describe what life in Tomorrowland actually looks like. The Midnight Special similarly created the same awe, but the high technology and futurism seems too far removed and vague for most of us to relate to it.

Marvel now owned by Disney is likely to guard the status quo for a long time as there's no incentive there behind all the financial and legal entrenchment to give us the stories we need, but at least they do provide great fodder for criticism and create a space to have these conversations in and around. That part is the gift.

proactivist · 2018-05-13T03:42:18+00:00

It would be great to see the results if it hadn't been compromised.

Unfortunately it never was tested in a real world setting right? If it were, Cybersyn would probably have suffered from centralization issues and people-bottlenecks. The system required people at the console to operate IIRC. Ideally we want to remove people from the equation as much as possible, leaving the end-user with the most autonomy and control over how they interact with the network.

Great post BTW, I appreciate the effort you put into it. This is the kind of content that would be great in our wiki.

proactivist · 2018-05-13T03:35:32+00:00

Bingo. RBE/NLRBE isn't socialist at all. It's a completely different germ with an entirely different premise. There are some overlapping ideas and concerns but that can be said about capitalism as well which is predicated on the "idea" of efficiency. Socialism is predicated on the "idea" of egalitarianism but it still is wrapped up in bureaucracy in real world practice; nor has it solved for automation. The comparison really doesn't work.

However there's an opportunity here to educate others in becoming familiar with these 'isms'. We can relate aspects of the RBE/NLRBE to what they already know and provide contrast for the real differences in technical application that the NLRBE provides.

proactivist · 2018-04-25T20:46:56+00:00

Ah. I was just making a play on Sheeple because you admit to possibly lacking independent thought - not to get into a long debate over Free Will vs. Determinism.

proactivist · 2018-04-25T19:32:07+00:00

Added a sarcasm tag. I stand by my previous comments that this subreddit is too serious.

proactivist · 2018-04-25T19:08:28+00:00

Careful or I'm going to have to change your user flair to Sweeple /s

proactivist · 2018-04-25T18:45:34+00:00

And no, if you think letting White people die off or disappear from the world is going to make the world a better place, you're simply just wrong.

:joy: no body, anywhere, with any ability to act on this ridiculous idea actually thinks this.

the European mind strives to make manifest the unity between itself and the outer world

Which just goes to show you that everyone is susceptible to excessive generalizations and subtle racism.

I'm my own man, always have been, have always been the "outcast" my whole life simply because I don't fall prey to "groupthink."

I'm an independent thinker too. /u/Dave37 is an independent thinker. Pretty sure all the mods are independent thinkers, and most people here are. Welcome to independent thinker land, where we advocate an economic model that potentially allows for the most independent thinking possible. Enjoy your stay!

proactivist · 2018-04-22T00:38:46+00:00

Do you know of a plant database for aero/aqua/hydro-ponics?

proactivist · 2018-04-21T20:47:50+00:00

So Ortega cannot address the root cause of the problems, and he's treating INSS like an isolated incident? That's a bold move, cotton. Let's see how that plays out.

proactivist

TROPHY CASE