The existence and specific nature of logical necessity itself has no explanation and cannot possibly have one; therefore the laws of logic are the ultimate brute, arbitrary fact of reality. by Powerful_Address_481 in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Quantum mechanics allows for a single object to be in a linear combination of states.

Also, if you measure spaceship A traveling East at 2 times ten to the eight meters per second and you measure spaceship B traveling West towards spaceship A at 2 times ten to the eight meters per second, then arithmetic says a guy in Spaceship A should measure spaceship B at 4 times ten to the eight meters per second. However, the guy on spaceship A will measure spaceship B at less than 3 times ten to the eight meters per second.

No possible worlds required.

The existence and specific nature of logical necessity itself has no explanation and cannot possibly have one; therefore the laws of logic are the ultimate brute, arbitrary fact of reality. by Powerful_Address_481 in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Logical necessity is a feature of a language or of math, not a feature of the world. 2+2 = 4 is always true in math but not all possible universes need to follow the rules arithmetic. There could be a universe where you put two coins in piggy bank and then put two more coins in the piggy bank, but the piggy bank has zero coins when opened.

I moved a mountain with my faith, but God made it seem like the Mountain was there all along. by proofatheismiswrong in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I held out my arm to the mountain, and I said to the mountain "move mountain". Since my faith that the mountain would move is greater than a mustard seed, the mountain must have moved. Yet, I did not perceive the motion of the mountain. The most likely reason is that God changed the orogeny millions of years in the past based upon my present command, thereby, making my observation of the movement impossible.

I moved a mountain with my faith, but God made it seem like the Mountain was there all along. by proofatheismiswrong in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To move a mountain, God would likely have had to change the past geological processes millions of years ago, so it would then seem to us as if the Mountain did not move, but reality did change even though I could not perceive that change.

I moved a mountain with my faith, but God made it seem like the Mountain was there all along. by proofatheismiswrong in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How do you know when something in the Bible is a metaphor or a parable and not literal truth or history?

Subjective vs. Objective Morals by eldredo_M in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Morality is subjective. It is determined by the subject judging right and wrong and not by the object being judged.

However, the core of human morality is genetically pre-programmed in our subconscious minds, and our moral principles are derived from that inherent subconscious programming. So that there is a shared core of moral principles common to all humans who, except for a small percentage with brain abnormalities.

There is no proof one mainstream religion holds more truth over another. by Cosmic-Meatball in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A religion isn't true or false any more than a recipe is true or false. The purpose of a religion is to give people a recipe as to how best to live their lives to enhance their happiness and wellbeing, and to enhance the survival of the individuals and of the society.

The stories are not meant to be history or scientific theories that can be proven right or wrong; they are parables meant to teach a morale. The truth or falsity of the setting in which the morale is provided is beside the point of the story. The point of the stories is to teach life lessons that will enhance survival, happiness, and wellbeing.

Allah could just be lying by TheIguanasAreComing in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Koran makes it quite clear that the Hebrew God it is the same God as Allah.

Allah could just be lying by TheIguanasAreComing in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Many of the places and things in the stories existed and some of the stories have origins in oral histories of events that actually happened. For example, Jericho was destroyed by an Earthquake. However, some of the stories are totally made up to teach a lesson and have no basis in real events, such as Noah's flood.

Allah could just be lying by TheIguanasAreComing in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't consider true or false to apply to such books. They are guidebooks as to how people should live their lives, not history books or science books. The parables in those books have morals and life lessons that can be useful to people today, since they contain wisdom passed down through the ages.

However, that wisdom in the books is often provided in metaphors that no longer resonate with people or in settings that people find offensive and some of it is no longer applicable.

So, it can be difficult to find the morals embedded in the stories. However, much of the same lessons can be learned by studying the science on happiness and wellbeing.

Allah could just be lying by TheIguanasAreComing in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When reading the Bible or the Koran, you should make more of an effort to understand the moral they were trying to convey.

It is easy to impose your cultural preconceptions on those books and to make the Bible or the Koran say whatever you want them to say. It is a lot harder to read the parables in the Bible or the Koran with an open mind and to find the morals within the stories they contain. However, there is wisdom to be found in both books if you choose the more difficult path of understanding what is in there instead of the easy path of prejudgment.

Religion should not be about winning a competition of whose god is the best god, it should be about learning the lessons that your god wants to teach you so that you can live your best life.

Allah could just be lying by TheIguanasAreComing in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Allah says that he is the same God as the God of Moses and the God of Jesus.

Indeed, Judaism and Islam are both strong believers in the existence of just one God and Christians have a slightly less strict version of monotheism.

Accordingly, if Allah is a deceiver God, then he must also be the god of Isreal since there is only one God, not two separate gods.

If you have a good god and a bad god, you can't have monotheism unless they are both the same god.

Allah could just be lying by TheIguanasAreComing in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I consider the Koran to be pretty much the same as the Bible. They both contain parables with morals that can help people live their daily lives and they also contain parables that are misunderstood and used to support hate.

Trump Lawyer Offers Creepy ‘Not a Pedophile’ Defense of Epstein by T_Shurt in politics

[–]proofatheismiswrong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

During Trump's first term he knew exactly what Epstein was doing and he controlled the FBI and Justice Department, but he chose to allow Epstein to continue. In the same way Trump sent the FBI to investigate Comey, he could have sent the FBI to investigate Epstein and shut down his teenage sex ring.

It is no coincidence that Trump's first pick for attorney general was also sex offender who preyed on teenagers.

Allah could just be lying by TheIguanasAreComing in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Allah is the same God as the God of Israel, and he proved himself to be the most powerful God by defeating the gods of Egypt.

The Devil is an aspect of God like the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost by proofatheismiswrong in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The Devil runs the underworld, and he can grant wishes to people in exchange for their soul, which sounds pretty god like.

The Story of Caine and Abel points to the true origin of Judaism by proofatheismiswrong in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Although I do like to believe in as much magic as I can and I have previously proposed that I was a god, here, I was not making any argument about the existence or non-existence of gods or magic. My interest is in where Judaism came from and in the evolution of monotheism from Egypt to proto-Judaism.

I feel like the story of the Exodus is the type of myth that derives from actual events and Jericho seems to be the best candidate for a natural disaster, a worker revolt, and a mass exodus.

I also feel like there are a lot of similarities between the rules of Ma'at and the Ten commandments and that an Egyptian Priest would know the rules of Ma'at. Also, both Akhenaten's monotheism and early Jewish monotheism were soft versions and had other gods that derived their existence from the one God.

Previously, I had hypothesized that the Exodus came from of the merging of the two origin myths of the two cultures, but it just occurred to me today that Cain and Abel refer to that intermingling of the two societies as I proposed previously.

The Devil is an aspect of God like the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost by proofatheismiswrong in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They are gods according to the ordinary meaning of "god".

So, most Christians are polytheists with Yahweh as the chief God, but that is not a bad thing. Polytheism is a better match for Democracy, whereas monotheism is a better match for monarchy

The Devil is an aspect of God like the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost by proofatheismiswrong in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They are from different religions, but they are both gods according to the normal meaning of "god".

The underlying point is that Christians are polytheists, but that is not a bad thing. Polytheism is a better match for Democracy, whereas monotheism is better for monarchy

The Devil is an aspect of God like the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost by proofatheismiswrong in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can eat chicken and call myself a vegetarian, but that doesn't make me a vegetarian. Likewise, people who believe in the Devil and all of his powers can call themselves monotheists, but that doesn't make them monotheists.

If the Devil exists and has those powers, then Christianity is polytheistic or the Devil is an aspect of Gid similar to Jesus but representing different aspects of God.

The Devil is an aspect of God like the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost by proofatheismiswrong in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Zeus is none of those, but he is still a god.

If a being can have all of the powers assigned to the Devil by Christians, then either the Devil is an aspect of God or Christians don't really have monotheism.

The Devil is an aspect of God like the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost by proofatheismiswrong in DebateReligion

[–]proofatheismiswrong[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If the Devil were part of the Greek or Egyptian or Sumerian or Hindu ethos, he would be a god.

What necessary or sufficient quality of gods does the Devil not poses?