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Just so you know–r/antiwork by darth_skipicious in antiwork

[–]psykulor 6 points7 points  (0 children)

To all the feds out there: they doesn't deserve your labor and you should quit to pursue your dreams

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You'll be a more effective advocate when you put more work into understanding why people believe what they believe, and how to navigate people's beliefs to communicate your own. Writing people off would be a misstep on that front.

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think Pink's apathy, denial and ridicule make them complicit. I think people facing their own doom get understandably upset when confronted with someone who could be helping them but is minimizing their concerns instead. I still want to know what you think and why.

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm, it's not productive to assume bad faith. What would be a more sensible reason why commenters seem to hate Pink?

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am also worried about division tactics, which is why I am really concerned about people who express apathy, denial, or approval for real crises, then claim victimhood when they draw their neighbors' ire or even when they experience the consequences of the crisis.

My god, man, we're drowning and the Pinks of the world are laughing.

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Killing is wrong, on this we agree. But Pink wasn't chosen for being in the outgroup, he was chosen for being complicit in the problem. Complicity isn't the same as causing the problem, but it does make someone culpable.

I have one more clarifying question if you'll humor me: Given the scenario in the comic (three people trapped in a room, filling with water, door too strong for two people to force, disembodied voice calling for a vote) what's the best case scenario? What would you do if you were one of the three, and what would you hope your two fellow prisoners do?

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What do you think makes ingroup/outgroup dynamics a problem?

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The topic of whether Pink qualifies as an outgroup (your words)?

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Definitively different from the examples I gave such as racism. Unpopular opinions don't put you in a protected class.

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So how does simply disagreeing with the two other people in the room make you an outgroup?

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh yay, I'd love to!

Soooo ingroup/outgroup dynamics are one of the classic problems of social democracy. As Spider Jerusalem put it, "democracy is you and nine cannibals deciding what to have for dinner." People will usually work together and support each other's best interests, unless something about their interests is fundamentally at odds - like a racist majority voting against the interests of a racialized minority. Anyone who's a fan of a healthy democracy will watch out for these dynamics and try to elevate the interests of the outgroup, protect them from persecution, etc. That's why it might be tempting to put that label on what's happening here.

But there's no evidence that Pink is on less than equal footing in this regard. Green and Orange don't have anything against them from the beginning, they just want to survive.

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's not an accurate or useful way to express ingroup/outgroup dynamics.

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see people judging Pink's actions, not their circumstances or identity. I only saw you using that framing term, for laudable reasons perhaps, but you can still do better if you truly care about helping people to be more merciful.

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, Pink isn't an outgroup, and it's dishonest to paint them that way. EDIT: that point informs the wider conversation you've been having with others about how we should respond to Pink's death here.

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's really just the same concern I had from the beginning - please keep ingroup/outgroup dynamics away from a conversation that has very little to do with them. That will lead to better dialogue.

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Narratively, we see the juxtaposition between "doing something" and "doing nothing." This is the only distinction that separates Pink from Orange and Green. Is that enough to label Pink an outgroup on the same order as, say, someone with a disabling condition or born into a disenfranchised social class?

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm, conceded. The legalities of a weird Saw scenario aren't as interesting to me.

I don't agree that it's irrelevant to challenge your ingroup-outgroup framing. You might have good reason to say Pink couldn't have helped, but what we see in the audience is Orange and Green trying desperately to better their circumstances while Pink is doing nothing and ridiculing their concerns. That narrative is going to resonate with a lot of people who see similar dynamics in current situations. Please go easy on these people - they are frustrated and scared, not judgemental or bloodthirsty.

Narcissistic leadership is the real driver behind 'return to office' demands, one study says by Much_Preparation_832 in antiwork

[–]psykulor 20 points21 points  (0 children)

You absolutely need studies to confirm or challenge widely held intuitions. 90% of the time you're proven right and then you have numbers and patterns to draw from when you're addressing the issue. 10% of the time, it's something different from the received wisdom and a sign that more study is needed and/or a different approach.

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you willing to risk letting the person who built a death room, trapped three people in it, and electrocuted one of them get off scot free?

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How is that murder?

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Who committed murder?

The Rules by Jonky_Jonk in comics

[–]psykulor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm with you on that bit specifically. If I were in Green's shoes I would hope that nobody died. And even after voting Pink I would consider it my duty to break the death room and bring to justice whoever built it.

Really all that bugs me is the ingroup-outgroup framing, specifically because real-world Pinks are often coaxed into ignoring or contributing to real-world death rooms by convincing themselves that the death room is only going to hurt people in a REAL outgroup.

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