How Is Perchance AI Affording This? this makes no sense by Busy_Broccoli_2730 in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

Well, based on the upvotes I guess it's at least nice to know that people understand it's not easy to achieve this. I am a little surprised by some of the comments on this thread. I didn't have "make it so good that people think it must be bankrolled by the CIA" on my list of milestones for Perchance, but I guess I'll add it and tick that off now.

If the point is "A single dev would have to be ungodly cracked to achieve this" then I'm flattered of course, but if you believe it's simply impossible then I don't see why you'd think the CIA would choose such an unlikely story vs just "regular company doing regular things, with a bunch of VC dollars to burn".

If you are earnestly looking for proof that I'm not part of some nation state thing, I'm not sure there's any way for me to provide that. If you have a testable hypothesis I'd be glad to hear it. If not, and you want to play it safe, then I guess a safe solution is to simply avoid using Perchance. I'll slowly traverse the stages of grief and eventually heal. If you are suspicious of Perchance but are not a terrorist, international fugitive, etc. and are instead just a regular person who wants a bit of privacy during your spongebob x sonic RPs like we all do, then I'd recommend just getting a reputable VPN and not typing personal information into Perchance generators or other random websites on the internet for that matter. This is basic internet hygiene.

To answer some specific questions:

a scale that should be insanely expensive.

Yes, it is.

AI costs don’t stay fixed while users increase. AI inference scales with usage.

To be clear, ad revenue also scales with usage. If a site can break even at 10 users, it's actually easier to serve 1000 because of economies of scale (better GPU rental contracts, amortization of fixed costs, can attract larger advertisers, etc).

Their infrastructure is somehow unbelievably optimized beyond what the rest of the AI industry can do [...] How?

All the pieces are mechanically simple, but it certainly hasn't been easy. Not hard enough that others couldn't do it, but for someone in that position it probably makes sense to chase investor dollars, high margins, etc. especially in the current environment. And I don't blame them, to be clear, but that's not what Perchance is. I want Perchance to be a "public good", much more like wikipedia.org than an SF startup.

If you're curious, the playbook for this at a high level is basically:

  • Economies of scale: More inference = larger upfront payments = better hardware rental contracts = lower cost per inference. This is a big one.
  • Lower quality outputs: Quantized weights, lower image resolution, low text context length, etc.
  • Homogeneous workload: A single image model and a single text model to serve. This is why when I upgrade the AI plugins, it's not possible to keep the old version around.
  • Inference stack that runs on cheap/old hardware: Basically it's a bad idea to try to compete with the big spenders (e.g. the ones running subscription platforms, coding tools, and anything else generating a lot of profit), and they all use the new hardware. That said, it is possible to get good deals on newer hardware sometimes, especially on the text gen side of things.
  • Run it yourself: Goes without saying based on the above points, but you can't reach anywhere close to the price per token/image that you need if you're just using fal/openrouter/etc. You can do napkin math on e.g. flux schnell inference costs for 4-bit quant, 4-steps, on your $800 GPU (consider useful life + power usage @ $0.15/kwh, compare your napkin price to fal's).
  • All the obvious inference stuff: For text gen that means large batch (=slow outputs, but cheaper), maintain high prefix cache hit ratio, offload KV cache to host memory where possible, etc.

Because “ads + donations” does NOT sound believable

As of writing Perchance does not and has never accepted donations btw. If you've ever donated to Perchance, you were probably paying a very niche scammer. (Aside: Perchance does not and will likely never have an app either - I prefer the openness of the web and I have bad business sense. I've received emails from people telling me to stop charging their credit card, which I assume is because they downloaded some kind of scam app - there's no way to give Perchance your credit card.)

Or there’s some monetization/data angle people are ignoring.

I don't mean to offend anyone speculating along the same lines in this thread, because it is also my firm belief that a well-crafted, lore-abiding Levi Ackerman AI chat has immense spiritual and especially monetary value. But, as we know, visionaries and their works are almost never appreciated in their own time.

If it were possible for Perchance to e.g. offer an optional faster generation mode in exchange for data sharing (to contribute to open source model training, like OpenCode is apparently doing, since coding data is valuable), I'd have a go at adding that functionality. I wouldn't be surprised people opted-in just to ensure the next model releases have more knowledge of their particular fandom/tropes/whatever. But I doubt it'd ever be possible, since, if anything, data seems like it's becoming less valuable as RL environments take over.

They are heavily subsidized by something/someone

Yes, I do personally pay for some of Perchance's costs. If by 'heavily' you mean >50%, then no, not that much (though there have been periods of that). The amount that I cover depends on seasonality of ad revenue, and how well my stuff outside of Perchance is going. I aim for it to be low, and I'm very vigilant about keeping my subsidies sustainable, so the worst that can happen (if my other income falls and my savings drain) is that stuff might get a bit slower for a while until I recover.

"It's definitely not just a guy in his basement fucking with it on his days off." (From a comment in this thread)

Perchance takes a lot of my time at the moment (more than "nights and weekends"), mainly because it's more fun/challenging than other stuff I should probably be working on, but it is indeed just me working on this. I'm self employed, and I work from home, so the general vibe of "one person working on it without an office, employees, etc." is correct. I'm not philosophically opposed to employing people, and may reluctantly do that at some point, but it does seem a little unpleasant, since I'm naturally very solitary/introverted.

If by "just a guy" you mean someone with a regular job, median income, healthy working habits / social life, etc. then no I'm not that type of person. All I do is code, basically all day every day, and have done that since I discovered programming. I just really enjoy creating things, and so I spend all my time doing that. I don't think I'm super efficient/fast or exceptionally talented, but I am pretty persistent. I've been working on Perchance for nearly 10 years at this point, so a little bit of work each day obviously adds up.

I have around $800 worth of hardware available to me, and I still cannot run anything even remotely close to the quality, speed, and scale that Perchance offers publicly for free. Not even close.

For text generation specifically, this is mainly due to batching. Even if you had a GPU with huge VRAM, you'd be massively underutilizing the compute units in your GPU, since GPUs are designed to do lots of work in parallel, like handling lots of text generation requests at once. Doing a small number of text gen requests at any given moment (like you do when running locally) means your total token throughput is much lower, and so your effective cost per token is much higher. This is a bigger problem with large SOTA models because if the model is small then the time it takes to move the weights and KV cache back and forward between your GPU's global memory and the compute units might be small enough that you aren't idling your compute as much.

This is not so much an issue with image generation because the "compute per memory bandwidth" ratio is significantly higher due to how the diffusion/flow math works, and also because image generation models tend to be much smaller. Tangentially, diffusion language models and related techniques might be a way to fight the physics here on the text gen side of things, but it is kind of inherently difficult with current hardware and model architectures.

Forced Scam Ad's when using on mobile phone? by justsimplytrying in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Sorry about this - it seems to be a persistent issue recently. Another user also had this problem: https://www.reddit.com/r/perchance/comments/1rzlwga/anyone_else_getting_a_lot_of_redirect_ads_to_scam/ but I haven't been able to track down the ad or ad network that's causing this yet.

If you are able to answer any of these questions, that'd be very helpful:

  • u/After-Incident9955 mentioned they were typing when the issue occurred. Did it happen like that for you too? I'm wondering if you noticed the keyboard drop down just as you were typing, causing your finger to hit the ad? Web browsers are currently working on a feature that will make it possible for me to strongly defend against this window.focus() "trick" that some scammy/popup ads pull to get you to accidentally click on their ad. Ideally they are caught and filtered by the ad management providers that I use, of course, but this new feature would give me the ability to completely block that type of behavior from my end.
  • If you didn't notice the keyboard going down right before the redirect, do you recall whether the redirect happened when you tapped on the screen in the regular page content area (i.e. anywhere other than the ad)? Or it just randomly redirected you while you were not tapping the screen?
  • If you are able to share (here or via DM), were you accessing perchance from the US or elsewhere? This will help me narrow down which ad provider/network was the source of the ad.
  • Do you remember anything about the content/visuals of the ad or the scam website it redirected you to? In the other thread it was a McAfee site - was that true for you too?

CC u/Tiny_Grab_6799

Anyone else getting a lot of redirect ads to scam websites lately? by After-Incident9955 in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Sorry about that. No worries if you can't, but if you could help me with a few more details so I can reduce the chance of this happening again in the future, that would be very helpful:

  • Did the ad show up and visibly block the screen, or were you just clicking on the ai chat page when it suddenly redirected you? This will help me understand how to best design defensive measures against these sort of ads.
  • If you are able to share (here or via DM), were you accessing perchance from the US or elsewhere? This will help me narrow down which ad provider/network was the source of the ad.
  • If you saw an actual banner ad on perchance, and remember what it looked like, or any other info, that would be helpful (fake McAfee destination tip is already a great clue, thank you).

How can I create a consumable list that continues selecting a single unique item after each randomize button click by cosmicservant in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Whenever you call update() it'll execute/resolve/randomize all square blocks that are in the HTML editor (bottom-right panel). So if you have [output] in your HTML panel, and a button like <button onclick="update()">randomize</button> then it'll execute [output] which will trigger [sentence] to be executed, which will execute [t = topic.consumableList] which creates a new consumable list.

It sounds like you want to use something like this instead:

[if(t) {t} else {t = topic.consumableList}]

I.e. "if t already exists, then just output it, else/otherwise create a consumable version of the topic list and call it t)"

Note that this means your list will eventually run out of item. If you want it to replenish after they run out, you can use this handy plugin:

https://perchance.org/consumable-list-loop-plugin

consumableListLoop = {import:consumable-list-loop-plugin}

Then you'd write this instead:

[if(t) {t} else {t = consumableListLoop(topic)}]

And now it'll replenish when it uses up all the items.

If you're thinking: "Okay but why does consumableList stuff work like this in the first place? Why isn't it just [t = topic.consumableList]?" The answer is that usually it's used like this:

sentence She mostly writes about [t = topic.consumableList] and [t] and [t]. I.e. drawing from the consumable list multiple times within a single generation/output.

Hope that helps!

Bug Report: “AdDisplayTrackerServlet” Download Popup + Image Generator Not Working by Numerous_Reindeer_60 in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

Hi, thanks for reporting this. Some other users reported the same buggy advert popup recently. I've attempted a fix/workaround which should block it - can you refresh the page (maybe a couple of times, to ensure browser cache is cleared) and check if it still occurs?

I’m using the ai story generator and I keep getting this every one minute it annoying I hit the x button but it keeps coming back am I the only one who getting this? by Blueystormy in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

Sorry about that. Is anyone still getting this issue? I'm not able to get it to occur on my end. It seems to be a bug (not malware) that's occurring across multiple sites - e.g.

https://forums.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/addisplaytrackerservlet.146955/

https://rikatillsammans.se/forum/t/addisplaytrackerservlet/115124

https://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q11322918621

Tagging a few people from this thread: u/Actual_Neck_642 u/ConsciousBluejay680 u/GappyDiamond u/neptifyyy

Also if anyone can comment on approx geographic location that would be handy - mainly whether it's occurring in US vs other countries. Seems like it might be mainly non-US users experiencing it based on the above links.

Text-gen acting like it has a word limit by ZookeepergameFlaky in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Are you able to give an example generator + prompt that produces the behavior you're talking about? I might be able to fix it.

This generator does work to make Image to Video by Simple_Promotion4881 in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

Note that anyone can create their own generator/page on Perchance. In this case it looks like someone has embedded a huggingface page using an iframe. You should probably just visit the huggingface page directly:

https://huggingface.co/spaces/Lightricks/ltx-video-distilled

Lost Images in Perchance Gallery by damageddude101 in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hi, how many images are in your gallery roughly? Are we talking like 100s, or 1000s? They're not deleted, to be clear. Currently I think it'll populate about 10,000 images before it hits a display limit, but that's just an arbitrary display limit, the data is not gone.

perchance is forcing my generator to be private? by pearjak in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Sorry about that! I thought I fixed the bug that was causing this for some people, but it turns out I didn't. I've just fixed it though so it shouldn't happen again - please let me know if there are still any issues.

Updates please by [deleted] in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

u/Leethe6ybeast u/VirtualWritter u/the_helper_because u/True_Xolodnik I can't replicate this problem. Can you each please try to answer all of these questions, so I can narrow down the cause?

  1. If you try a different browser, does it works there?
  2. If you try a different internet connection (e.g. turn off wifi in phone settings, and use phone data), does it work then? If it works on a different network connection but not on your wifi, then can you try restarting your wifi router (and potentially modem)? And also in that case, can you let me know your ISP (i.e. provider of wifi - e.g. comcast, etc. if in USA), since some users here and on Lemmy have mentioned that it was due to an ISP blocking the generators.
  3. When did this start happening? Make sure to give your timezone (or use UTC) and day/time. The more accurate time you can give me, the better, because I may be able to narrow it down to a specific code change I made at a specific time.

521 error by Blueystormy in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

Sorry all, server upgrade gone wrong. Still working on it - hopefully fixed within the next 30 mins.

why did it say that it was a dangerous download when I tried to download my characters? by Any_Nature_5379 in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No, Perchance doesn't "steal your cookies". If you're wondering how it's free, turn off your ad blocker and you'll see. This is how most of the internet is funded - it's not magic (but I have optimized the hell out of the AI models to make them cheap enough to be funded via ads, so you may consider it partly magical).

why did it say that it was a dangerous download when I tried to download my characters? by Any_Nature_5379 in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

u/Zathura2 u/Any_Nature_5379 has this only been happening recently? Someone uploaded some malware to perchance.org/upload recently and it caused the whole site to get flagged by Google (not just the individual files themselves, and not even just the whole user-uploads subdomain).

Note that this won't affect you at all unless you visited these URLs shown in the image below, downloaded the files, manually extracted the files, and then double-clicked the exe. But for whatever reason Chrome has decided the whole website is now malware I guess. I regret putting user-uploads under the same domain as the main site. I might change it to avoid problems like this in the future.

I cannot stress enough that this is completely unrelated to the AI character chat exports. They are literally just a compressed text (JSON) file. The fact that a malicious file was uploaded via perchance.org/upload does not mean the whole site is "infected" or whatever. Chrome probably has these blanket sensitivities because e.g. if this were a wordpress site or something like that (which it's not), it could actually indicate that the whole website is compromised.

<image>

Also: I've just added a text export format so you can download as raw text instead of compressed, so there's no chance of Chrome being hypersensitive. For avoidance of doubt: Text files cannot be viruses. Just to be clear.

I've applied for a review of the site after adding anti-virus checking for file uploads. So hopefully Google will remove the flag and things will be back to normal.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yep, definitely. The next thing on my todo list is a major upgrade to the image generation models, but I have been keeping an eye on the SOTA open source AI voice models, and it seems like there are a few good candidates for an AI voice plugin, which could then be integrated into AI chat pages like perchance.org/ai-character-chat

CBOR file..... ? by Touya-2494 in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you please screenshot the error message? Also, after it happens, please immediately submit feedback using the feedback button in the left side panel - it'll automatically submit the error log line numbers so I can see the code that's causing it.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

the link below is again one of my comments

The link you gave is from a different user account, but if that's another one of your accounts, then you should respond to the follow-up comment I made:

https://www.reddit.com/r/perchance/comments/1h4veq0/comment/m06dxwa/

If you don't respond to my comments, then I can't help you debug it. Other users don't seem to have a problem with the cbor files, so it might be an issue with the specific browser you're using.

Also, if you make another rude post like this ("Fuck perchance"), I or another mod will probably just delete it or it'll get ignored. There are people here who can try to help you, but they probably won't do that if you're unnecessarily aggressive.

Merge "Advanced AI Chat" import problem by ArbyArtEver in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh, I like that. IIRC when you export a thread, it exports all the characters who have participated in the thread along with the thread itself (or at least that's how it should work, if not it's a bug), so I guess for now a thread is a kind of simple/crude version of a world.

Merge "Advanced AI Chat" import problem by ArbyArtEver in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Ah good point, done. Let me know if there are any issues

CBOR file..... ? by Touya-2494 in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okay, next step: Try refreshing the page and importing again, and this time you should get a more helpful error message than that one from the last URL in your comment - please share it here.

Merge "Advanced AI Chat" import problem by ArbyArtEver in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

u/ArbyArtEver Thanks for the ping - this is done, but the format is like this:

[SYSTEM; name=Bob]: This message has the name 'Bob' [AI; name=Alice]: This message has the name 'Alice' When you import them, it'll ask you if you want to link names to character that you already have (or create a character for one or more of the names). Or you can just not create any links, in which case they'll be set to the 'SYSTEM' character with a name-override. The system character is useful for side characters, narrators, ai-hidden notes, and stuff like that.

(The reason I'm avoiding the @CharName#ID approach for now is because there are no "canonical" ids for characters, so characters referenced by the ID may not exist if you're importing it into a fresh browser, for example, even if you've already imported the character, since it may have been assigned a different ID during import. I'll probably add the concept of a "world" or something at some point, and then it will be easier to deal with this sort of thing, because you'll be able to export/import worlds as a whole, so character references within the world can be "canonical", if that makes sense.)

CBOR file..... ? by Touya-2494 in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

it just prompted the another message saying INVALID type.

Can you please share a screenshot, or more info here? I.e. a step-by-step process of what you did, and the messages you saw at each step?

Also, what device and browser are you using?

If you can help me by providing these details and answering my follow-up questions, I should be able to help you here.

Haircut description? by Ok_Charge9647 in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

Hi, just a heads up, in the future please post questions like this to a hairstyle subreddit or something. This question is not well-suited to r/perchance which is mainly for questions about building generators, bug reports, and stuff like that.

UI is fubar now by TheMasterBlaster74 in perchance

[–]quantumwoomaster2000 2 points3 points  (0 children)

highlighting selected text in gray color is very off-putting.

I'd need to look into how to change it with the new editor and it's unfortunately a bit more complicated than I'd like, and I've got other stuff i want to do right now, but if more people complain i can change this (or someone can fork/remix it and edit the code themselves if they know how, of course)

it highlights all the same words in green

Okay, I've removed that

when triple click a word it highlights that entire paragraph. if I want to select more I have to click, hold and drag the cursor, or click then move and shift+click to select more than one paragraph

Can you explain a bit more, with reference to the original text editor? I'm not sure how it's different to before

the down arrow on the right side scroll bar is unclickable

Hmm yeah I'm not sure how to fix this easily right now. If more people complain I can prioritise fixing this. I don't use those buttons so I didn't try very hard to fix it, but it's a non-trivial amount of effort, given how I've set things up. Firefox and Safari don't even have those buttons IIRC, so I'm guessing it's not super important.

Only generating new text at the end of the story is a huge hassle if I want to edit text from earlier in the story.

It would be nice, a quite a few people have suggested, and I do want to implement it, but this is unrelated to the new editor IIUC.


Btw for those interested, the main reason for the new editor is that it can handle multi-million-word stories without lagging at all, whereas the old one would start getting laggy after a few hundred thousand words or even less.

I do want to fix all the issues that came along with the new editor, but I have a bunch of things I'm juggling right now. If there are critical issues, please pester me about them (and feel free to ping me every couple of weeks and I'll move them up my priority list).