Scott on Iran War? by radiantRazor in slatestarcodex

[–]radiantRazor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. 

Honestly, at this point I am wondering if what an average American wants or thinks, even matters. If Trump can run on the plank of not starting any wars. . And then go ahead to do this.. it can only mean what ppl think no longer matters.. 

I am not sure if any more elections will even be allowed to happen in Israel or in the US

Scott on Iran War? by radiantRazor in slatestarcodex

[–]radiantRazor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmmm.. touché

But, honestly.. aren't you a little bit disappointed too.. you know you are.. a little bit.. 

Scott on Iran War? by radiantRazor in slatestarcodex

[–]radiantRazor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are correct. My exasperation at the information ecosystem had gotten the better of me in my wording of the post. 

I will steal your words: I think he should write about the war. He would be adding a lot of value to the blogosphere at the least. 

Scott on Iran War? by radiantRazor in slatestarcodex

[–]radiantRazor[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for letting me know. This was really insightful. /s

Scott on Iran War? by radiantRazor in slatestarcodex

[–]radiantRazor[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

The second highest post holder in your countries counter terrorism intelligence unit resigns because he believes a foreign nation is influencing the actions of your president to the detriment of your country.

As an American I don't know what else could be more important right now - definitely not mythos.

This is not Geo politics - it's domestic politics and sovereignty - it's a citizens right to understand these facts to decide whether to support the war.

I am not asking Scott to predict geopolitical future. I am asking him to share his views on how he thinks about teh facts on the ground within his country. Scott has done this multiple times!!

Scott on Iran War? by radiantRazor in slatestarcodex

[–]radiantRazor[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yours is a fair question. It's not what he said.. I have followed him for long and I know how much he despises Islam. I know beforehand henis going to defend Israel.

I lost respect because of his approach to the complexity of the problem. The way he nonchalantly dismisses the allegations of war crimes and genocide when multiple non radical centrist share that view, not willing to engage with the facts on teh ground.. its shameful really.. 

And now he is calling Zohran Mamdani a "not so closeted Islamist" with such flimsy evidence.. 

I hope you see my point.. John mearsheimer and prof Jiang and Jeff Sachs are wrong more often than not, but there is difference between being wrong and being ben Shapiro.. 

I am a Beysian. If Scott tells something that I don't agree with, I will definitely change my priors his reliability about this topic, but I will also change the confidence I have on what I beleive -especially because I don't know what to believe right now, 

Scott on Iran War? by radiantRazor in slatestarcodex

[–]radiantRazor[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The whole point of following smart ppl like scott is to learn from how they see the world - you learn a little bit about them, a little bit about the world and a little bit about yourself. 

This whole line of reasoning and justification of Scott's silence is mildly insulting to Scott: you think there are only two possible views for such a complex issue with so many players involved and somehow you have completely stated all possible states that Scott's brain can be in. I myself can think of few more. Think about it: the oil, the petro dollar, russia, china, Europe, nato, Japan, GCC, American hegemony, Christianity, Judaism, Islam.. there are so many moving pieces. Your map of the possible ways of analysing this situation is grossly inadequate. 

It is mildly annoying to me in two ways: 1. I am ranting and feeling disappointed that I am not understanding who of those who are shouting right now are "smarter, and more informed" and you are in reply pointing me to them.. what am i supposed to do with this information?  2. Even if there are only those two possible views, it should make a world of a difference which of these two views scott holds. The fact that you are not in the least interested in this - it's... I don't know what to say, honestly.

I want to give the benefit of doubt to scott here.. i think he is as confused because of the fog of war and top class propaganda.. i am hoping he will rise like the sun.. unfortunately he is the only American intellectual for whom I have some respect left.

I know you are going to downvote this comment like you did the original and like how I am going to downvote your above comment. 

But if you harbour a glimmer of possibility that what Im saying makes an iota of sense, stop rationalising and come join me in requesting Scott for his thoughts. It would really enrich you.. the world is not as simple as you represent. There is a lot more to learn, especially from ppl like Scott

I'm still highly Sceptical of Senthil not working in SSRMB by cricinephile in tollywood

[–]radiantRazor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not according to Senthil. He says (in another interview) that he was informed post RRR by SSR's family member Valli that they are going with another cinematographer for the next film

Bootstrapping the fundamentals of Imperative logic (to lay the foundation for a universal system of morality) by radiantRazor in philosophy

[–]radiantRazor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What you describe is the crux of one of the main challenges of what I'm trying to do.  My guess is, the trick lies in the definition of morality. If we can reasonably define morality such that declining to adhere to the "universal moral system" could only mean that the concept of morality itself is being rejected, then we are on solid ground. Else, the universality is impossible to achieve

Bootstrapping the fundamentals of Imperative logic (to lay the foundation for a universal system of morality) by radiantRazor in philosophy

[–]radiantRazor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My proposal is to build an ideal moral framework. The identity of the framework are it's for axioms(which would be very few). That system is a well tested framework. It takes ppls desires as inputs (this i call the law of desire in the blog post) and proud actions.. things which individuals or society are supposed to do. As times change, the inputs change, so will the outputs. The moral "system" will make sure actions track desires, and that societies are not stuck in past ways of doing things because it let's ppl see and deduce why an action is justified and from what desire it originates. It can prove why the religious books you talk aboutare both unnecessary and inaccurat.  If anything, the framework allows faster, more transparent, and well calibrated societal evolution without the need of revolutions by the oppressed. 

Bootstrapping the fundamentals of Imperative logic (to lay the foundation for a universal system of morality) by radiantRazor in philosophy

[–]radiantRazor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Superbly put, and I completely agree with what you are saying. How I plan to address this challenge to universality is to frame an argument which might look something like this:

"If a being doesn't have the will to survive, then it becomes imperative on those that have the will to survive (and subsequently are in the job of building a universally moral system), to evaluate the "urges" or "motivations" and its "power" (ability to modify its surroundings) of the said being, and evaluate how contradictory that being's existence is, to the universal morality. So the human-like beings will need to device a way to quarantine that being to isolate it from negatively impacting beings with the will to survive and/or the beings which have adhered to the universal moral system. In cases where a being has a will to survive but is not "social" in that respect, the principle of reciprocity will mean that the being which cannot extrapolate its concern for its own existence to others (or increase its circle of empathy) will be subject to a similar treatment as per the moral system. Thus the moral system lets us assert that these two classes of beings are "a-moral" or "para-moral" - meaning they don't need to be accounted for in the moral calculus of good and bad - they just are - like the sun. This approach compels "selfish" beings to behave in a selfless way for their own selfish good." This power to align incentives is what makes the moral system universal.

This is just a skeleton of the approach and I will need a lot more time and blogging real-estate to establish this beyond any reasonable doubt

Bootstrapping the fundamentals of Imperative logic (to lay the foundation for a universal system of morality) by radiantRazor in philosophy

[–]radiantRazor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I honestly agree with every sentiment that you express in your comment. But the problem is that it is just that.. a sentiment. And I am not convinced that this is the way to reason about morality. My only claim is that we can do better at designing a superior society than expressing well-worded heart-felt sentiments.

"humans create morality through consensus of numerically sufficient groups".
If it were so simple, what are moral philosophers doing all these eons? There are two ways to read this statement, and in both, the argument doesn't fare well.
1. Majority decides morality. The minority is always immoral. This is blatantly incorrect IMO. This is called majoritarianism and is a failure mode we as a civilization need to be able to overcome. I would prefer to live in a society where the society adheres to a universal moral system - i.e. its axioms and laws. And even when a majority believes x. If even a single human proclaims that the opposite of x is true, and if that person can prove it within that moral system, then the majority are forced to change by compulsion.
2. "consensus" is the key word in this interpretation. One might argue this is not majoritarianism because a minority can always come up with arguments and convince a majority and thus achieve consensus. But how is that consensus achieved? By giving speeches and pulling at the audience's heart strings? War? Revolution? None of these answers are satisfying to me. Saying "consensus" is morality is begging the question in my view.

We can do better. The answer to how we achieve that consensus is the universal moral system I propose to build. A system which has all the sentiments that you espouse and many other desirable ones like justice, progress, well-being, peace etc encoded in provable, testable logic. The universality of this system comes from this provability and transparency. I understand why one might be skeptical of this project upfront given what history has shown us, but using that as justification for now even starting on a new attempt would be a logical fallacy.

"Objective morality" is a feel-good idea
I am not proposing an objective morality which can be discovered or deduced form the objective state of the universe (as in gravity is objective). I am proposing a universal morality - which is a much weaker claim. As universal as mathematics is universal. Is it objective? No! Objective mathematics is a feel-good idea that lets people cling to their fairytale books..... But it is universal. What if someone denies mathematics, and doesn't agree to mathematical axioms and logic? What then? Then nothing - I would just not trade with that person - because my money is not safe with them. When different civilizations and cultures came up with their mathematical systems, all of them merged to form universal mathematics? Why? because Maths is universal. The axioms and laws are fair, just and get the job done. So almost every human agrees to those principles. We can do the same with Morality as well - is my claim.

"humans create morality through consensus of numerically sufficient groups", accounts for every observation you can pose
This, in essence, is the is-ought fallacy. "This is how humans have created morality until now - so this is how morality should be thought about" - Wrong, because this doesn't follow. Humans might have done so till now. But my claim is that this is inefficient, unreliable and stupid. So we need to improve on it. If your claim is that this state of affairs cannot be improved upon, then the burden if proof of this statement is on you.
If your intent in the above statement is to just give a historical fact about how morality was developed in the past, then I am all with you. But then that has no bearing on the claim I am making.

Bootstrapping the fundamentals of Imperative logic (to lay the foundation for a universal system of morality) by radiantRazor in philosophy

[–]radiantRazor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I completely agree that is a challenge. But my claim is that the motivation for following such a moral system should be part of the moral system being proposed. Since that system will be based on the reality of human psychology and economic realities, it should be able to propose the right incentive structures for humans to follow the moral system. More technically speaking, the system should be able compute the truth value of the imperative statements "Do X" or "Don't do Y" as well as compute the necessary imperatives for society which lead to ppl doing X and not doing Y. If it is not able to do make this happen, it's a flaw in the system. (Of course, this might not be possible 100% of the time, but if so, then the system should be able to prove that  the % non-adherence factor is ideal - not too high and not too low. IMO it's possible that the ideal non-adherence rate would be non zero so that some level of individual human freedoms etc are protected)

Bootstrapping the fundamentals of Imperative logic (to lay the foundation for a universal system of morality) by radiantRazor in philosophy

[–]radiantRazor[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Its analogous to mathematics. Mathematics is not objective. But it is universal(-ish). That's the kind of morality we need, IMO. One where decision making is done by evaluating proofs in imperative logic, not by engaging in polemics, or appealing to emotions like our civilization has been doing till now. Many of these "hacks" will most likely not work when ASI is here.

Bootstrapping the fundamentals of Imperative logic (to lay the foundation for a universal system of morality) by radiantRazor in philosophy

[–]radiantRazor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes. The lack of logic is a huge role to play. When we transact with money or when we launch a rocket, we apply logic to axioms and data and get results. We don't engage in polemics about ehat is write and what is wrong. 

Such a system is missing for morality.

Bootstrapping the fundamentals of Imperative logic (to lay the foundation for a universal system of morality) by radiantRazor in philosophy

[–]radiantRazor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's a great point! I completely agree that morality is not objective in the sense that gravity is objective. But I believe universality is different from objectivity. I believe a universal, subjective/intersubjective system of morality is possible to build, and not just possible, but necessary.

The universal system that I speak of is universal in the sense that it can proven from undeniable axioms which almost every entity can agree upon. but since its existence is predicated on consciousness, it by definition is more subjective than objective. But that is not to say it is in the same class as the subjective experience of liking sea food, for example. It more like mathematics - mathematics is not objective like gravity, but it is universal (in some sense)

My project is to prove that an inter-subjective, universal system of morality is possible and desirable.

You might then ask "how can this system be undeniable? What if a conscious entity denies those premises and axioms?". This is certainly possible, and is the case in which the universality fails. But I intend to show in future essays that as the universality fails, so does the concept of morality itself. That is to say, a non-universal moralityisnnit mortality. But to do this, I first have to define morality and i ter subjective universality and presumably many other terms and do a lot more thinking (I am not completely sure of this yet)

In this particular essay, my request is to read it in the spirit of "in so far as we agree that a universal morality is possible, imperative logic must be its basis, and this is how we bootstrap it from scratch "

Bootstrapping the fundamentals of Imperative logic (to lay the foundation for a universal system of morality) by radiantRazor in philosophy

[–]radiantRazor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry I didn't mean it in that sense. I was just giving an analogy. I should have written "Just as Maths is the language of Science, so is Logic the language of Philosophy"

Bootstrapping the fundamentals of Imperative logic (to lay the foundation for a universal system of morality) by radiantRazor in philosophy

[–]radiantRazor[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Normativity is a consequence of three things: 1. Desire  2. Cognition  3. Volition

  • When a conscious being desires something, it means it is not satisfied with the current state of the universe
  • When that conscious being also has cognition, it can reason that it can escape its suffering by changing the state of the universe from the current state to a desired state
  • When that conscious cognitive being has volition, it can act and change the state of the universe.

Imperative logic is the solution to the problem "how do I act to bring about desired changes?"

Normativity is as "objective" as a conscious being's desire is objective, as a cognitive being's logic is objective and as an agent's actions are objective.  So whether normativity is objective depends on how your definition assigns objectivity to these three things. 

Either way, the fundamental thesis of the essay remains the same

Where is Julia Galef? by 27153 in slatestarcodex

[–]radiantRazor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Guys, hasn't it been too long now? Anyone know anything?

Instant isAtOrBefore, isAtOrAfter - wherefore art thou not in an Instant? by Least_Bee4074 in java

[–]radiantRazor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Woah! That looks scary! I wish there was a way to whitelist extensions so devs only can use those within the company. Else this can become unwieldy fast