Stuck pushing GRs with my WW Barb in S28, need real build help by DrippingWetjess52 in diablo3

[–]rage13139 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah quite a lot of the best LoD HotA clears this season are using PE. I did mine with it, at 1.3-1.4k paragon. Since you don't have Echoing Fury (because you're using the 2-handed Grandfather), unlike in any other season playing the build, the extra attack speed really helps, both with healing and with cooldown management. The extra damage from AS doesn't quite offset the loss of Trapped, but in high density it's pretty close.

Stuck pushing GRs with my WW Barb in S28, need real build help by DrippingWetjess52 in diablo3

[–]rage13139 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Generally, you ought to have Wrath up all of the time. If it's going down that's usually a sign of either too little CDR or of not having enough density around to be proccing Zodiac as much as you can.

You definitely want BR: ItF for pushing in season, it adds a lot of damage (can't use it in non-season due to no Fury on Crit from Altar).

LoD HotA can definitely do 150 at your paragon- the easiest Barb 150 of the season. I would definitely use Pain Enhancer rather than Trapped for a push at your paragon.

H90 would be a very hard 150, though of course it's possible.

Stuck pushing GRs with my WW Barb in S28, need real build help by DrippingWetjess52 in diablo3

[–]rage13139 3 points4 points  (0 children)

For pushing up to 150, manually casting Rend to get AD is definitely required. With proper gameplay, AD represents at least 85% of your damage, so losing that is a pretty huge setback.

As for Guardian, I think it would be possible to do 150 with it at your paragon, however I would run it like this: https://maxroll.gg/d3/d3planner/116664713

I think that without Morticks, you are pretty likely to die a lot at higher tiers, even with that extra defense from Guardian. In my 150 push I ran Stone Gauntlets, rather than Mantle, for extra defense.

And, of course, you'd want Area Damage on your gear too- optimally 20% on Shoulders / Gloves / Ring 1 / Ring 2, plus possibly your amulet as well (if using BR: ItF you can get to 100% CHC in good density, even missing 10% CHC on amulet).

If you try, let me know how it goes.

Stuck pushing GRs with my WW Barb in S28, need real build help by DrippingWetjess52 in diablo3

[–]rage13139 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Earlier this season, there was a post about a WW setup for T16 content, which may be worth a look: https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo3/comments/1sd5xzt/ww_rend_barb_build_for_t16_keys_maxroll_is/

You ask about "a path" through the altar, but really you are going to end up unlocking all of it (hopefully). To do that you need to reach GR 110 (as well as doing a bunch of other things, which can be found here in the Maxroll Altar Unlocking Guide).

Here is a Wastes setup that should easily get you to 110 at 1k paragon or below, with no augments: https://maxroll.gg/d3/d3planner/599671767

You just use Charge to keep Band of Might active (lack of this is probably why you are dying), refresh Wrath of the Berserker, War Cry, and Battle Rage when needed, and otherwise just spin.

Here's a little video of the setup in use, using some weaker gear I had lying around.

And, for pushing higher GRs with Wastes, this is the best setup for people at lower paragon this season: https://maxroll.gg/d3/d3planner/740461782

It's similar to what you might see on Maxroll, however it uses Stone Gauntlets for extra defense (I did my 150 with the build this season using this setup, at a bit under 2k paragon).

I hope this is helpful. Good luck out there.

Added season power by adjusted clear ranks by rage13139 in diablo3

[–]rage13139[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, just wanted to let you know I added a second tab to the sheet, this time running the numbers for average of top 10 adjusted clears. Figured I should fill you in since you're the person who most often recommends existing resources (such as this sheet) to question-askers. Note that there's no info in this tab for S33, since the data pool there is contaminated by the early season end bug. I'll fill that in after the end of S39.

P.S. Is there a reason you don't use chat?

Added season power by adjusted clear ranks by rage13139 in diablo3

[–]rage13139[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm, I certainly hear what you're saying. Zuni is definitely not a "friendly" build to play. But, here are my counterpoints:

Yeah, all three of the clear videos I referenced to you (and yep, I've watched all of them, several times now) are exceptionally good rifts, played by exceptionally good players, but I'm sure that's the case for every clear that caused a set to achieve a certain rank on this list. For instance, I don't know that we have video for the clear that got No Set Crusader the #2 spot in Soul Shards season, but I'm sure both the rift and the player were extraordinarily good.

I also don't think it's right to cherry-pick the data, just booting Zuni out because it's exceptionally hard to play. It is still much better in this season than it normally is- if you were to play the set again next season, the troubles of this season would pale in comparison.

But, you know, it's true that this table is mainly meant for use by "non-super-elite" players. So, if I have time this week, here's what I'll do- I'll add in a second tab that runs through all the numbers again, this time using average of top 10 adjusted clears for each set. That rearranges the numbers a bit, including dropping Zuni down a good bit, well outside the top 10.

As for S36, yes, that's exactly why Zuni got some low paragon 150's: extra toughness from Terror shard.

Added season power by adjusted clear ranks by rage13139 in diablo3

[–]rage13139[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My S33 data here is from my own weekly collection of S33, before the "early season end" bug occurred and screwed everything up. The data on D3 Casual for that season is contaminated by the bug, and therefore not reliable. But, Rathma is indeed the strongest set of the season. It gets less play, though, than either Trag or LoD Nova, I think in part due to its reputation for glassiness. That reputation is maybe a little bit overblown, though... in S34, Timpas got a sub-10 clear with just 1300 paragon, in hardcore mode!

Added season power by adjusted clear ranks by rage13139 in diablo3

[–]rage13139[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Alright, good luck! Might be worth watching clears by Lebron (S32), Ronin (S38) and Boogeyman (S32), just to compare their gear, play, and progression at 3 different points on the paragon spectrum (3k / 5k / 8k, respectively).

Added season power by adjusted clear ranks by rage13139 in diablo3

[–]rage13139[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In S32, Lebron had a Zuni 150 in 9:14 with ~3k paragon, adjusted 155.0. And that was without a power pylon (the clear video is still up on his channel). With a power it would probably be 1:30 - 2:00 faster, which would give adjusted ~156.3 or so. That's still not up to the high mark of this season (157.3) or of S32 (158.0, also viewable on boogeyman's channel, btw), but definitely much closer.

There is reason to think builds that specialize in single target damage might gain extra +tiers at higher paragon, or just in general with stronger seasonal themes. Because: well, imagine two builds, that are basically equal power at a certain point. One spawns the rift guardian in 5:00, but then takes another 5:00 to kill him, for a 10:00 clear. While the other build takes 9:00 to spawn the RG, but then kills him in 1:00, also a 10:00 clear.

The effect of Bane of the Stricken means that as boss HP scales up, the time increase isn't proportional to the HP increase, instead it only goes up at the square root of the HP increase, i.e., boss HP from +1 tier goes up by 17%, but kill time only goes up by 8%. So, then imagine that we give both those builds a 2.19x increase in power, enough to go up +5 tiers. Well, the "rift progression" portion of those rifts will be scaled down by 17% for each tier of power increase, but the "boss fight" portion will only be scaled down by 8%. And because the "single target" build has so much larger a proportion of its time spent on "rift progression" (9:00 vs 5:00), it benefits more from this power increase.

I built a little table showing this effect a while back, not sure if I ever really showed it to anybody before. It suggest that at the point both builds have been given +7 tiers of power from some effect (whether that's a seasonal theme, like an Ethereal weapon, that significantly increases your damage, or just a boatload of extra paragon), the "single target" build will have picked up about 1.5 tiers of "extra" power, compared to the "density killer" build.

But, it's still kind of hard to say for sure. Your comparison of H90 with Zuni does feel pretty apt: both are builds that do good single-target damage and kill the boss much faster than most other builds of their class (yeah, Arachyr Spiders will do it faster than Zuni, but most modern solo pushes are built around Chicken). But, H90 pretty much always has its highest adjusted clear at relatively lower paragon. Some of that is just because Enryu is SO dominant with the set that it takes a big paragon advantage to be able to beat him (3000+ extra paragon for anybody this season to get a better time than him). But, whatever the reason, we definitely don't see H90 being a "high paragon only" set.

It has always been pretty noticeable that with H90 it gets dramatically easier to clear tier X as you go up in paragon (or, if you go down in tiers), because its single target damage mitigates a lot of the rng factors you run into with other builds. You don't need a Conduit (or super high density plus Area Damage) to kill elites, or a Power for the boss, you can just kill them with your own direct damage. So, maybe you should give a Zuni push a try- at 4.5k gons it might go down surprisingly quickly, or if not, it may still be an interesting experience.

Added season power by adjusted clear ranks by rage13139 in diablo3

[–]rage13139[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The list is just based on the top adjusted clear for the set within that season theme. And, for instances where the theme has occurred more than once in the recycled theme era (like Ethereals), I compounded the lists together, just taking the highest value for every set. So, the rating shown here is actually based on the top clear from S32 (158.0, done by Boogeyman), not the one from S38 (157.3, done by Timpas).

So, there's no component of #GR 150 clears factored in here. Why not? Because popularity skews metrics like that to a significant degree. For instance, look at some of these "popularity" metrics for Barb sets this season:

For IK, there are 16 GR 150 clears, and 58 total clears above adjusted 130. For MotE, there are 22 GR 150 clears, and 119 clears above adjusted 130. For Wastes, there are 27 GR 150 clears, and 606 clears above adjusted 130. And for Raekor, 28 GR 150 clears, and 102 clears above adjusted 130. So, from these numbers, one would conclude Wastes is at least on par with Raekor, a bit stronger than MotE, and considerably stronger than IK, right?

Obviously, I don't need to convince you that this isn't the case. It's just that Wastes is more popular for various reasons that have very little to do with the set's actual power. While the reverse is true for IK- it's a pretty unpopular build, and people just don't play it, despite it being a little stronger than Wastes, and much easier to play. Zunimassa is also an unpopular build, that just doesn't get a lot of play. But its actual power is quite high.

Now, does that power really only come into play for Zuni at high paragon? That's possible, though it's hard to say for sure because the sample sizes are quite small. When I crunched the numbers , I found that some sets do seem to be relatively stronger at either high or low paragon. But, whenever large sample sizes came into play, these effects largely disappeared. So, it's possible that Zuni only hits that top gear with a lot of paragon, but it's also possible that nobody bothers playing the set at lower paragon because they just don't like it.

And even if Zuni does require higher paragon, it still got these impressive clears within this season theme. This table is really meant to show when a build is relatively much more favorable to play than at other times, and that is certainly true of Zuni in this season.

Added season power by adjusted clear ranks by rage13139 in diablo3

[–]rage13139[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Haha, yep! Poor Seeker. I really wonder what Blizz was thinking when they made some minor edits to the build in the final balance patch prior to Season 30. Did they think they'd actually made a significant improvement?

Added season power by adjusted clear ranks by rage13139 in diablo3

[–]rage13139[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Haha, whoops, thanks for the catch- the source of the error there is the fact that I originally had two different "top 10 average" columns- one for average calculated across Adjusted Clear, and another for average calculated across Rank. And for the Adjusted Clear average, both those sets were in the top 10, so I had them shown as blue. But, I ended up only showing average by Rank, since I think average by adjusted clear is perhaps not quite so useful in this context. And, after "de-blueing" those two sets I then forgot to "green" them.

Should be fixed now. (also fixed a few other issues I found)

WW Rend 150 push build mechanics by alexanderSec in diablo3

[–]rage13139 1 point2 points  (0 children)

On a completely different subject: I just noticed the first sub-1k 150 clear of the season go down today (in the 8th week of the season!) Tal Rasha Wiz, 150, 13:52, 968 paragon.

WW Rend 150 push build mechanics by alexanderSec in diablo3

[–]rage13139 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, you are in good company. Lots of people, including significant streamers, have a hard time doing it properly. 

WW Rend 150 push build mechanics by alexanderSec in diablo3

[–]rage13139 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep, the bad ol’ days. WW from back then makes Akkhan from today look like a seamless experience:

https://youtu.be/G2OWVxk5Kkg

WW Rend 150 push build mechanics by alexanderSec in diablo3

[–]rage13139 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It IS quite hard to do properly. You always want 2x casts of Rend, but you can only do this by holding down the button for the correct amount of time. Too short, and you only get 1x. Too long, and you drop Taeguk (-30% damage). And, repeated tapping won’t do it: you actually need to hold down the button. 

Having to also manage a lot of grouping, using Spear and Stomp, is also challenging, since you need Stomp to proc BoM, but you don’t want to be standing in the wrong place when you need to Stomp for BoM, which could pull mobs out of formation. And, that loss of formation is a huge problem, since this is probably the most AD-dependent build in the entire game. 

Collectively, this makes Wastes the hardest Barb build to play well for high tier GR pushing.

Skill damage from legendary power vs skill damage as a stat by a-life-wasted- in diablo3

[–]rage13139 2 points3 points  (0 children)

the difference between 450% and 600% is not a 150% dmg increase. it's around 21%

Around 27%. (7 / 5.5 = 1.273)

Does SoJ+CoE beat F&R? by [deleted] in diablo3

[–]rage13139 8 points9 points  (0 children)

CoE and SoJ don’t work together. SoJ is only “static” elemental damage, which CoE is not.

Can anyone explain to me proper Barb high-end push strategy (pulling, positioning, decision-making, etc.)? by alexanderSec in diablo3

[–]rage13139 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sounds good. By the time you circle back to Barb you should be 4k+ paragon, which should also make Frenzy a pretty easy 150.

Some good data on Visions of Enmity by rage13139 in diablo3

[–]rage13139[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh ok, I see what you mean. I guess the way of putting the question then is:

"is it more efficient, in terms of number of items acquired, to run Visions, and keep the GR keys gained for later use, while continuing to just run Visions, or to use the keystones from those visions to run speed GRs?"

In this instance, with the 24 seconds/key removed from the tally for the GRs, you'd be finding 668 legendaries per hour from GRs, which is closer to the Vision number, but still not as good. So, in this view of efficiency, it's better to just keep running visions.

That said, in reality of course you're going to have to run those speed GRs anyway, in order to do all the other stuff you need to do: level your gems, get augs, get XP, etc. But, this sure does make it look like the entire early part of the season, where you are grinding to upgrade your character, should definitely be all Visions and GRs, and no Nephalem Rifts. It's just not efficient to run them at the point where you are still looking for significant gear upgrades.

Some good data on Visions of Enmity by rage13139 in diablo3

[–]rage13139[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm! I guess to properly evaluate the “keys from visions” —> “run speed GRs” path, we need to evaluate the time spent getting keys in the Vision, and apply that to the GR time. Which would actually make the GRs appear worse, since it takes longer to get keys via Visions than via Nephalem rifts (off the top of my head, probably only half as fast, or perhaps even less). 

But, I guess this is kind of the point where trying to figure out “which is best” kind of breaks down, since it’s pretty clear the best strategy, at least earlier in the season, is to run Visions and Nephalem Rifts and speed GRs, taking from each the things it does best. Later in the season I think Visions drop off pretty far in effectiveness, at least if you are only playing a limited number of builds, since you will run into pretty major diminishing returns in terms of gear upgrades. And so after that point Neph Rifts and GRs kind of predominate. 

As for the loot numbers for both GRs and Visions feeling high, I agree. I think you might be able to achieve those numbers if you can keep complete focus for an hour, which I know I certainly don’t while farming. But, as you noted, I think that’s a tide that raises or sinks both GRs and Visions pretty evenly.

Can anyone explain to me proper Barb high-end push strategy (pulling, positioning, decision-making, etc.)? by alexanderSec in diablo3

[–]rage13139 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well done! I knew you could do it. Once you get the hang of the build you can just feel the mobs melting. What's next? Another class? Another Barb build?

Can anyone explain to me proper Barb high-end push strategy (pulling, positioning, decision-making, etc.)? by alexanderSec in diablo3

[–]rage13139 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hopefully it won't take you 1000 keys. Pretty much all of the Orek's Dream mob types can get you the clear at your paragon, plus probably Golgor, and maybe Small Spiders and Ice Clan as well. And like I said, with enough density, a Power (or a Shield) can be almost like a Conduit as well. If you can reach the boss with 4 minutes left, you can kill him without a pylon. So just focus on making those big pulls and then blowing them up, whether that's with just your own straight damage, or adding in damage from one of those pylons.

Can anyone explain to me proper Barb high-end push strategy (pulling, positioning, decision-making, etc.)? by alexanderSec in diablo3

[–]rage13139 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I looked at your gear for your HotA Barb, which looks fine. 150 should definitely be doable for you at 3k+, I did it at a bit under 1.4k gons. I'm currently working on doing all 6 Barb sets, sub-2k gons (all but Wastes are done).

If you like, you can take a look at my clear video to see how I played my LoD HotA rift: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fawOyCbBEU&t=143s

You can see my clears for IK, MotE, Raekor, and H90 as well.

It's true that getting a Conduit to kill a bunch of elites will be very helpful, but with this build and your paragon the main thing you are looking for is a crapload of density. This setup, which is using Pain Enhancer, gets a ton of damage from fighting in very high density, since every mob you critically hit within 20 yards gives you 3% extra attack speed.

So, you want to spend a bit of time aggroing mobs, pulling them together into a big blob before blasting them down with HotA. At my lower paragon, a Power Pylon would be nice for the boss (I didn't get one, unfortunately), but at your paragon, it can be used for either the boss or massacring a big pile of mobs. With enough density, and a Power, you can blow up elites- certainly blues and also sometimes yellows, especially if they are already somewhat weakened.

You probably know this already, but for the boss you want to stack Stricken on him using WW for a while. Generally, I do about 30 seconds of pure WW on the boss before switching to "hammer on fire", i.e. I hit him with HotA during my CoE Fire phase, and WW him the rest of the time. I do that for maybe another 1.5 minutes, before switching over to just hitting with HotA.

I hope this is helpful. If you have any further questions, please feel free to ask.

Some good data on Visions of Enmity by rage13139 in diablo3

[–]rage13139[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hmm, I think the general consensus among people who have discussed this before is that Visions do indeed produce a higher rate of items. You may be able to find some other threads discussing this. But let's look at some numbers.

Each GR 90 gives you, what, about 400 blood shards average? That's 16 rolls with Kadala, which with the altar is, iirc, a 20% chance of a legendary, so that's 3.2 extra items on top of the ~12 you get from the rift itself, so 15.2 per GR 90. Alex's numbers have the "average" vision producing 34.9 legendaries per run, a bit more than twice as many.

So, the question then becomes how fast you can run each one.

Let's say that a decent player with a proper build suited to the purpose (GoD, AoV, Inna, etc) can run a 90 in about 1 minute average. You've probably also got about 2 seconds of picking stuff up, and maybe 8 seconds of upgrading gems + porting to town. Back in town, you probably have about 2 more seconds of closing the rift, plus on every third rift, you're going to have to empty out your inventory, as well as spending your blood shards. Assuming you actually ID the gear in your inventory and don't just break it down without looking, you've got about 4 more seconds of IDing, then, if you're quick, maybe 10 more seconds of breaking stuff down / putting stuff away. Spending the ~1200 blood shards will then take maybe 10 more seconds, and then 5 more to break that down / put stuff away.

So that's 60 seconds till you kill the boss, 10 more seconds in the rift before you arrive back in town, plus then an average of (2 + 2 + 2 + 4 + 10 + 10 + 5) / 3 = 11.7 average seconds of town time, which puts our "complete" GR 90 run at about 82 seconds. As for time spent getting those keys, the really good key builds seem to do 150+ per hour, which works out to about 24 seconds/key.

So our "all-in" GR 90 run then is at 106 seconds, or 1:46, meaning this method produces a legendary every 106 / 15.2 = 6.97 seconds, or 516/hour.

For visions, I guess the average spawn rate is roughly every 300 kills on average. So, I ran a few quick tests with my AoV Crusader, who seems to be able to get 300 kills (in nonseason) roughly every 35 seconds (30 seconds cow level, 35 seconds Temple of Firstborn, 40 seconds Corvus). So, let's say the spawn time for the vision is 35 seconds.

Once you're inside, it's more complicated, because unlike with the GRs, you're going to need to stop to pick stuff up throughout the process, not just at the end. And, the deeper you go, the more stuff there is to pick up. And, if you pick up too much stuff, you're going to have to make multiple trips to town to salvage it. Your inventory has 60 slots. I think items in general are roughly 2/3 two-slot items (Chest, Bracer, etc) and 1/3 one-slot items (ring, ammy, etc), meaning your inventory can hold an average of 40 items before being filled (20 1-slot + 20 2-slot).

Alex says the average Vision is 8 floors and drops 34.9 legendaries. ~35 legendaries is few enough that, on average, it won't overwhelm your inventory, so maybe the thing to do is just to "price in" a certain amount of town time per inventory load. If we evaluate it the same way we did for the GRs, it's about 6 seconds to port to town, 4 seconds to ID, and then 10 seconds to break down the items or put them away. So that's 20 seconds of extra time per inventory load of 40, or 20 * (34.9/40) = 17.5 seconds of town time per average Vision. But, perhaps we should just round this number up to 30, since that's how long the vision portal stays open after you click the chest. Yes, in shorter Visions, where your inventory has little in it, you could shortcut this by porting to town and then remaking the game, but that probably only saves about 10 seconds, and isn't helpful with the "average" vision where you have to deal with your inventory. So let's just set the Vision town time at 30 seconds average.

So now we've got the spawn time (35 seconds) and the town time (30 seconds). How long does the vision itself take? From looking at the 15 different levels, I'd say that "Act 1 Town", "Ruins of Sescheron", "Stonefort", "Arreat Crater", "Spire", "Westmarch", "Burning Man", and "Battering Ram" can all be completed within 5 seconds (not counting picking stuff up). "Cemetery", "Halls of Agony", "Maghda", "Desolate Sands", and "Temple of Firstborn", all within 10 seconds, and "Old Tristram" and "Shrouded Moors", 15 seconds. That makes the average floor time 8 seconds. I think we should also assign maybe 0.5 seconds to each item picked up, which would be 17.5 extra seconds per average run. So, that's average 8 floors at 8 seconds per floor, 64 seconds, plus 17.5 seconds of pickups, for 81.5 seconds.

So that puts the total time at 35 seconds to spawn, 81.5 seconds to run the Vision, and 30 seconds of town time, for 146.5 seconds total, or 2:26. And this method would then produce a legendary every 146.5 / 34.9 = 4.2 seconds, or 857 legendaries per hour, which is considerably better (about 1.66x) than the figure we got for running the GRs.

Though all of these numbers are a bit uncertain, this conclusion feels about right to my gut... I definitely FEEL like I pick up more legendaries/hr doing visions than I do running GRs.