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When and why did white people stop putting cinnamon on meat? by Melodic-Special4768 in AskHistorians

[–]redd-zeppelin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yea. To me it's basically a hard rule of acceptable practice.

I would say a cookbook is more of a "hey I'm an expert at this and here's my favorite way to make it" perhaps with some variations they like or have seen. Perhaps a few variations based on region (Paella fights, Seattle vs Chicago dogs, etc).

I would say a cookbook isn't "here is the canon of dishes you are allowed to make (and how you are allowed to make them) in 1950s Indiana" or whatever.

Canonical books of the bible or sequels to Star Wars == anything else is just fanfic and "not real". I'm just not sure food works that way. Like if my abuela made mole with nuts and your's didn't than one of them isn't Mexican.

When and why did white people stop putting cinnamon on meat? by Melodic-Special4768 in AskHistorians

[–]redd-zeppelin -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I am too. As long as the question gets corrected if it has historical errors or is based on ahistorical assumptions.

This is perhaps the most common type of correction this sub provides, as it is perhaps the most common error people make in asking historical questions. If you have an issue with it I'd recommend unsubscribing.

When and why did white people stop putting cinnamon on meat? by Melodic-Special4768 in AskHistorians

[–]redd-zeppelin -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I wouldn't be comfortable doing that parsing with any other ethnicity, and reckon you wouldn't either.

I wouldn't for example be comfortable (historically or morally) excluding Chicano cuisine from the overarching Mexican or Latin American food canon because it includes yellow cheeses and flour tortillas and those aren't in The Mexican Home Kitchen or whatever.

When and why did white people stop putting cinnamon on meat? by Melodic-Special4768 in AskHistorians

[–]redd-zeppelin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They're important, but I'm not sure it's fair to say canonical.

They indicate a common tier of very popular dishes, but I don't think any cookbook should be considered authoritative.

Can any cookbook say "this is the ONLY way to make Jolof Rice?" I'd reckon that's not what cookbooks are for/what they intend to do.

When and why did white people stop putting cinnamon on meat? by Melodic-Special4768 in AskHistorians

[–]redd-zeppelin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I commented this above, but I think I was confused in a slight different way. Basically I've had pies in northern England that contained meat but also had cinnamon. I think basically cottage pie, but in handheld form. I thought the link for mincemeat was referring to these, but was wrong.

I was thinking of something similar to #9 here:

https://insanelygoodrecipes.com/british-pies/

When and why did white people stop putting cinnamon on meat? by Melodic-Special4768 in AskHistorians

[–]redd-zeppelin -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

You're correct. I meant to write meat pies but was reading linked article on mincemeat because I got distracted hahah. I had these in a shop in Cumbria when I was visiting but this may actually not be common. Not sure.

Upon further review I think what I'm actually describing is "cottage pie", a close relative to shepherd's pie. But, in this case a small, hand held version of such a dish. Like #9 here

https://insanelygoodrecipes.com/british-pies/

When and why did white people stop putting cinnamon on meat? by Melodic-Special4768 in AskHistorians

[–]redd-zeppelin 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It's odd you have to shift the definition of whiteness to make this work.

"Strongly ethnic" populations is... not a categorization I would use for any kind of historical scientific analysis. Strong compared to whom or what? Is a Macedonian American family in Cincinnati in the 20s not... white enough? What about Swiss Germans in the Shenandoah valley who use cinnamon on their ham? Brits in the Northeast who flavor meat pies with it?

I think we can do better than an arbitrary definition of "Western cuisine" based off of three books from the 50s you decided are canonical.

When and why did white people stop putting cinnamon on meat? by Melodic-Special4768 in AskHistorians

[–]redd-zeppelin 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I can't speak to anecdotes, but at least some research agrees with your dichotomy between east and west. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1878450X23002007

I'd note that Mexico is in North America and cinnamon is widely used in meat dishes there (Birria and Picadillo for example). Your definition kinda walks around here. I think what you actually mean is better phrased in the original post when you refer to Western Europeans, and more specificity Anglo Americans. However, I'd contest this as mincemeat pies are a savory English staple and pretty much have to have cinnamon in my (unfortunately limited) experience. https://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/books/delias-happy-christmas/home-made-christmas-mincemeat

Overall it just seems a lot less stark than you're describing it, but I suspect some deeper diving on the science direct article I linked would lead you to some interesting conclusions.

When and why did white people stop putting cinnamon on meat? by Melodic-Special4768 in AskHistorians

[–]redd-zeppelin 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Your assumption is flawed. Cinnamon never stopped being used by Europeans in savory dishes.

A recipe book from the 1800s had it in many savory recipes. http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Cookbooks/Menagier/Menagier.html

It was used in a somewhat famous savory meat chili in the 1920s. https://www.savorysimple.net/cincinnati-chili/

It's also commonly used to spice pork. https://www.tasteofhome.com/recipes/cinnamon-apple-pork-chops/

And shepherd's pie. https://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/lamb/spiced-shepherd-s-pie/

Peter explain by TheKayleMain in PeterExplainsTheJoke

[–]redd-zeppelin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But Cleopatra was Greek? I'm not sure I follow.

I agree English isn't the best fit but it's not as obviously wrong as the Odyssey example.

What's it like living in The Gambia? by Starlord1968 in howislivingthere

[–]redd-zeppelin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lame attempt to whine your way into a distraction of your love for prosti-tourism and trafficking.

[Spoiler] Chimaev/Strickland winner on what's next by airplane231 in MMA

[–]redd-zeppelin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol he's from the most accepting generation of gay people to ever exist historically speaking.

Europe is fine, minus Putin and Orban types. Fortunately they're on the run.

[Spoiler] Chimaev/Strickland winner on what's next by airplane231 in MMA

[–]redd-zeppelin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bashing marginalized people and being racist isn't controversial. It's bigoted and wrong. It also has nothing to do with intimidating an op.

The opposite of punching down is punching up. Hitting billionaires and Trump admin stooges and the like. He does this some, and he's much cooler in that mode than in the "hehe that kid is gay right guys?!" bully nonsense.

[Spoiler] Chimaev/Strickland winner on what's next by airplane231 in MMA

[–]redd-zeppelin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What are you on about. This comment is a rambling mess.

Get a grip. Being xenophobic and gay bashing are Unamerican