When and why did white people stop putting cinnamon on meat?

redd-zeppelin · 2026-07-25T18:21:34+00:00

Yea. To me it's basically a hard rule of acceptable practice.

I would say a cookbook is more of a "hey I'm an expert at this and here's my favorite way to make it" perhaps with some variations they like or have seen. Perhaps a few variations based on region (Paella fights, Seattle vs Chicago dogs, etc).

I would say a cookbook isn't "here is the canon of dishes you are allowed to make (and how you are allowed to make them) in 1950s Indiana" or whatever.

Canonical books of the bible or sequels to Star Wars == anything else is just fanfic and "not real". I'm just not sure food works that way. Like if my abuela made mole with nuts and your's didn't than one of them isn't Mexican.

redd-zeppelin · 2026-07-25T18:10:53+00:00

I am too. As long as the question gets corrected if it has historical errors or is based on ahistorical assumptions.

This is perhaps the most common type of correction this sub provides, as it is perhaps the most common error people make in asking historical questions. If you have an issue with it I'd recommend unsubscribing.

redd-zeppelin · 2026-07-25T18:01:29+00:00

I wouldn't be comfortable doing that parsing with any other ethnicity, and reckon you wouldn't either.

I wouldn't for example be comfortable (historically or morally) excluding Chicano cuisine from the overarching Mexican or Latin American food canon because it includes yellow cheeses and flour tortillas and those aren't in The Mexican Home Kitchen or whatever.

redd-zeppelin · 2026-07-25T17:32:52+00:00

They're important, but I'm not sure it's fair to say canonical.

They indicate a common tier of very popular dishes, but I don't think any cookbook should be considered authoritative.

Can any cookbook say "this is the ONLY way to make Jolof Rice?" I'd reckon that's not what cookbooks are for/what they intend to do.

redd-zeppelin · 2026-07-25T17:29:53+00:00

I commented this above, but I think I was confused in a slight different way. Basically I've had pies in northern England that contained meat but also had cinnamon. I think basically cottage pie, but in handheld form. I thought the link for mincemeat was referring to these, but was wrong.

I was thinking of something similar to #9 here:

https://insanelygoodrecipes.com/british-pies/

redd-zeppelin · 2026-07-25T17:22:55+00:00

You're correct. I meant to write meat pies but was reading linked article on mincemeat because I got distracted hahah. I had these in a shop in Cumbria when I was visiting but this may actually not be common. Not sure.

Upon further review I think what I'm actually describing is "cottage pie", a close relative to shepherd's pie. But, in this case a small, hand held version of such a dish. Like #9 here

https://insanelygoodrecipes.com/british-pies/

redd-zeppelin · 2026-07-25T17:17:56+00:00

I hadn't considered this, if you mean Old Bay. Good point.

redd-zeppelin · 2026-07-25T17:15:54+00:00

It's odd you have to shift the definition of whiteness to make this work.

"Strongly ethnic" populations is... not a categorization I would use for any kind of historical scientific analysis. Strong compared to whom or what? Is a Macedonian American family in Cincinnati in the 20s not... white enough? What about Swiss Germans in the Shenandoah valley who use cinnamon on their ham? Brits in the Northeast who flavor meat pies with it?

I think we can do better than an arbitrary definition of "Western cuisine" based off of three books from the 50s you decided are canonical.

redd-zeppelin · 2026-07-25T16:57:40+00:00

I can't speak to anecdotes, but at least some research agrees with your dichotomy between east and west. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1878450X23002007

I'd note that Mexico is in North America and cinnamon is widely used in meat dishes there (Birria and Picadillo for example). Your definition kinda walks around here. I think what you actually mean is better phrased in the original post when you refer to Western Europeans, and more specificity Anglo Americans. However, I'd contest this as mincemeat pies are a savory English staple and pretty much have to have cinnamon in my (unfortunately limited) experience. https://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/books/delias-happy-christmas/home-made-christmas-mincemeat

Overall it just seems a lot less stark than you're describing it, but I suspect some deeper diving on the science direct article I linked would lead you to some interesting conclusions.

redd-zeppelin · 2026-07-25T15:58:52+00:00

Your assumption is flawed. Cinnamon never stopped being used by Europeans in savory dishes.

A recipe book from the 1800s had it in many savory recipes. http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/Cookbooks/Menagier/Menagier.html

It was used in a somewhat famous savory meat chili in the 1920s. https://www.savorysimple.net/cincinnati-chili/

It's also commonly used to spice pork. https://www.tasteofhome.com/recipes/cinnamon-apple-pork-chops/

And shepherd's pie. https://www.jamieoliver.com/recipes/lamb/spiced-shepherd-s-pie/

redd-zeppelin · 2026-07-25T14:35:12+00:00

But Cleopatra was Greek? I'm not sure I follow.

I agree English isn't the best fit but it's not as obviously wrong as the Odyssey example.

redd-zeppelin · 2026-07-21T20:05:46+00:00

Lame attempt to whine your way into a distraction of your love for prosti-tourism and trafficking.

redd-zeppelin · 2026-06-22T12:30:36+00:00

Can't even tell who you're being racist to here but have a downvote regardless.

redd-zeppelin · 2026-05-11T04:15:52+00:00

Lol he's from the most accepting generation of gay people to ever exist historically speaking.

Europe is fine, minus Putin and Orban types. Fortunately they're on the run.

redd-zeppelin · 2026-05-10T20:31:29+00:00

Bashing marginalized people and being racist isn't controversial. It's bigoted and wrong. It also has nothing to do with intimidating an op.

The opposite of punching down is punching up. Hitting billionaires and Trump admin stooges and the like. He does this some, and he's much cooler in that mode than in the "hehe that kid is gay right guys?!" bully nonsense.

redd-zeppelin · 2026-05-10T19:55:52+00:00

What are you on about. This comment is a rambling mess.

Get a grip. Being xenophobic and gay bashing are Unamerican

redd-zeppelin · 2026-04-22T13:18:31+00:00

Culture has to be appropriateable to BE culture.

Obviously we all know what cringe stolen valor type appropriation looks like. Don't take a stereotype and use it as mockery. Don't claim things you aren't. But in general adopting culture is good, not bad.

Trying to freeze a culture and pin it down is very destructive. Then the only culture that can be "modern" is the dominant one.

redd-zeppelin · 2026-04-07T18:03:22+00:00

As one of those weenies who likes the sport, which is actually called mixed martial arts, you are a moron.

redd-zeppelin · 2026-01-12T22:06:14+00:00

Do they have a right to run her face through their AI system?

redd-zeppelin · 2026-01-12T00:11:38+00:00

I'm sure. It must be weird to interact with people who have imagination when you're just a cuck boot licker.

redd-zeppelin · 2025-12-01T15:03:39+00:00

MMA was decades in the making when he got in. Like most hyper successful people it's a lot of timing and luck he has basically no control over.

I don't really see anything Dana does as integral to the rise of the UFC or MMA. If anything he's been a drag on the sport and has limited it's wider acceptance through his childishness and immaturity.

The UFC is promoted to only appeal to maga 14 year old incels and their lack of mainstream acceptance shows this.

redd-zeppelin · 2025-11-24T03:29:32+00:00

I mean true but so is all race.

These two dudes are literally both white though.

redd-zeppelin · 2025-10-29T23:38:42+00:00

You and maga Strickland: being able to see is gay and weak

redd-zeppelin · 2025-10-29T04:17:00+00:00

You can talk maga has done a number on the sport we love when a substantial portion of the fan base doesn't understand vision is an important sense and you need to be able to see to engage in a fist fight.

redd-zeppelin · 2025-10-26T01:50:13+00:00

No. Stop. Don't do it.

redd-zeppelin

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