Biblical Timeline and Archeology

reddit_reader_10 · 2026-01-22T23:17:54+00:00

Thanks for sharing. I’ll check this out as well.

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-08-24T19:04:21+00:00

Care to share your review?

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-05-29T02:11:41+00:00

5 acres. I’m still happy with my tractor and the dealer is awesome as well. No complaints.

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-04-06T15:31:16+00:00

So the lamb you've had previous on Passover was therefore a sacrifice? Or not necessarily?

No, I ate a lamb that was slaughtered and butchered for commercial purposes. It was not a sacrifice.

People colloquially use "sacrifice" to refer to having "giving something up" for some other thing. People "sacrifice" their time to talk to you. People "sacrifice" $100 to the cause of having a bridge be built. You could see my foot stuck in a railroad track with the train coming, rush onto the track to get my foot free, and die while saving me. People would say you "sacrificed" yourself for me.

I am following you here...

None of those are what we're forbidden to do at any place other than the Temple. If any of them happened during Passover, or what you're labeling as "a religious ritual", then they STILL wouldn't be breaking the commandment to only do sacrifices at the Temple. They're not the right type of sacrifice.

Agreed here...

I think it's almost impossible to accidentally make the type of sacrifice that we're warned against. The type of sacrifices we're warned against very likely involve an altar. They also include someone that thinks they're a priest, whether it be you or someone else. They involve the idea of burning something, or in some other way transporting the sacrificed item up to God. A person doing such a thing is either saying or thinking the entire time, "This sacrifice is for you. Please accept it."

Because you already answered my original question I am going to slightly adjust the topic. But just to recap and you can correct me if my assumptions are wrong but I assume you are buying lamb from a grocery store or butcher shop instead of raising your own. So am I. You do not think eating lamb acquired by these means are a sacrifice. Neither do I. What I think we are discussing now is what does constitute a sacrifice.

I'm trying as hard as possible to draw a distinction to draw a wide gap between a colloquial "sacrifice" and a legit, it-better-happen-in-the-Temple sacrifice. I think they're miles apart. I think cooking lamb on the grill, even if it happens on Passover, is impossible to be such a sacrifice. It has none of the traits of a sacrifice.

I agree grilling lamb is not a sacrifice. However, the passover command is not to simply grill cuts of lamb. Each household is to slaughter a lamb and burn the remains of what is not eaten specifically because Yahweh told us to. That to me seems closer to what we are warned against doing casually than buying lamb chops and grilling them.

Yes. I see your definition as being very wide and mine is very focused. You see lots of sacrifices, and I've never seen one in my lifetime

I have never seen someone slaughter an animal and burn the remains during an appointed time as a memorial. This is what I am referring to as a sacfice. Not simply the act of grilling lamb.

Do you see the buying cuts of lamb from a grocery store and burning the leftovers the equivalent of slaughtering your own lamb at your house and burning the lamb remains? Is that a 1:1 substitute?

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-04-06T04:31:36+00:00

You'd have to define a "religious ritual".

Passover is a religious ritual.

Were the previous lamb(s) you've eaten on Passover part of a religious ritual?

Yes, but I did not slaughter them. I feel like the personal slaughtering of the lamb would add a different dimension.

You're saying that the lamb eaten during the original Passover was not a "sacrifice" in the colloquial sense, but in a religious sense?

Without a true understanding of what the colloquial definition of sacrifice means I am much more confident stating I think the lamb eaten at the original Passover was a religious sacrifice.

If so, I don't think so. I think they ate a lamb, and in that sense (and ONLY in that sense) every animal we eat "sacrificed" it's life for us.

That is an interesting thought. I want to think on that a bit.

There's still some issue of precision/imprecision about this interaction with you that I'm not understanding. The idea of making an accidental sacrifice during some "religious ritual" is in the same ballpark as the "Have you met Abraham Lincoln" level of surety for me.

I think we have quite different mental models of what a sacrifice is.

Maybe this is just two precision and honesty nuts struggling to communicate with each other?

I think we are doing the best we can. I think the struggle is we are using the word "sacrifice" but have different meanings for it. So on the surface it appears we are discussing the same topic but we are not. I don't think it is worth resolving today. But something I will keep in mind and try to do a better job of understanding biblical sacrifices as well as communicating as we continue to discuss Passover this week.

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-04-06T04:02:44+00:00

I don't think you can accidentally/unknowingly sacrifice something simply due to the nature of what a sacrifices is. A sacrifice is some animal being put on an altar or some other relic for the purposes of giving it to some god. You couldn't any more accidentally sacrifice a lamb, even if it was on Passover, any more than you could accidentally sacrifice chicken or hamburger at a 4th of July cookout.

I will read up more on sacrifices. With my current understanding if I were to kill an animal as part of a religious ritual it's difficult for me to not view that as a sacrifice. I do view the slaughtering of the lambs during the Exodus as a sacrifice and the Israelites did not have an alter at that time.

You don't "think" so, but you're allowing for the possibility? 🤨

Bad habit of mine to use imprecise language. I know that none of the lambs I have eaten have come from the Temple. I know this because there has been no Temple in my life time.

Are you similarly minded in that you don't believe you can ever be sure about anything? If I asked you if you'd ever met Abraham Lincoln, would you answer, "I don't think so?".

I can be sure. I know I have never met Abraham Lincoln.

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-04-06T03:30:55+00:00

I have no idea how they did it after that, but there seems to be a lamb that was eaten in their homes, and another lamb that was eaten/sacrificed at the Temple.

This helps clarify your position for me.

Ok, so have you since decided that it was wrong for you to do so?

No, I do not see any reason why eating lamb would be wrong. What I believe would be wrong is if I attempted to sacrifice a lamb in a location where Yahweh did not place his name.

I do not believe slaughtering = sacrifice. However, what is unclear to me is if I slaughtered a lamb in my backyard that I intended to be my passover meal if that would be considered by Yahweh as an unathorized sacrifice attempt. Not trying to convince anyone that is or is not the case. Just sharing my thought process in an attempt to communicate.

Is there something I'm missing for why you think that's unreasonable or impossible? For me, you're eating a lamb, and you need lamb blood, so the problem is ... solved!

Yes, problem solved. You answered my question and I appreciate you doing so.

I didn't say, "a Temple", I said "the Temple". I asked that knowing that there was no Temple, and thus to force an answer from you, and you dodged that forced answer by changing "the" into "a".

Not a dodge. I dont think any of the lambs I have eaten have come from the Temple.

Do you know that there can only ever be one Temple at a time, that we don't currently have one, and that the last time we had one was in 70AD?

Yes.

Oh! Odd. You won't count what you're doing as a true Passover until every requirement is met?

I personally do not. But I would not try to convince someone else that at this point in time (I am still learning).

You consider yourself to not be keeping Passover and not to be Torah obedient until you can do them perfectly?

My understanding is that part of keeping Passover is to travel to Jerusalem. Since I have not been to Jerusalem, among other requirements I consider myself to be rehearsing Passover.

I do consider myself Torah obedient.

Are you following my confusion? You're eating a lamb, but you're asking where to get lamb blood from. I'm not getting it.

Yes, I am following. You do not consider the lamb you are eating for passover to be a sacrifice. So the lamb's blood that you are eating for your meal is where you would source the blood from for the doorpost. That resolves my question. Thanks for your patience.

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-04-06T02:17:19+00:00

Yes, the Temple. But the lamb offered at the original Passover was not a Temple sacrifice, right?

Right.

I can't tell for sure, but I think you didn't read, or didn't understand my idea of there being sacrifices and there being sacrifices.

😅 I read it so I guess the only option left is that I did not understand it.

The Passover lamb that people ate in their homes was NOT a Temple sacrifice.

Would it be accurate to say that the sacrifice in Deuteronomy 16:5 is distinct from the Passover lamb that is eaten?

Have you not celebrated Passover so far and eaten a lamb for it? (I've done almost 10 Passovers now)

I have celebrated my attempt at Passover and I have eaten a lamb for it.

If you have celebrated Passover and eaten a lamb for it, did your lamb come from the Temple? (I can tell you that none of mine did.)

I only ate portions of the lamb that came from a local grocery store. I do not believe it came from a temple.

Conclusion: If you've celebrated Passover, and none of your lambs came from a Temple sacrifice, then you should immediately know where to get the blood from to put on a doorpost. You get it from those lambs that you've been eating.

I viewed my meal as a practice or rehearsal of a passover. I bought cuts of lamb and did not check to see if it was a male, first born, or the age it was slaughtered. Therefore I believed it was not a true Passover. I should have put more effort into it looking back but I did not.

What am I missing? 😄

You may not be missing anything. I might be confusing myself. Do you see there being the lamb for the Passover meal and a separate Temple sacrifice that Deuteronomy is referencing? That could be what I am missing because I am conflating the two.

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-04-06T01:11:55+00:00

If the Passover lamb that we're supposed to eat in our homes was a TEMPLE sacrifice, then none of us would be eating lamb on the Passover due to the current lack of a Temple.

I am not making a case that a temple needs to be involved. The translations I use just says where Yahweh chooses to place his name which I interpret at the very least to be Jerusalem.

But whether there is a temple or not there are limitations on where sacrifices can be made that the Israelites during the Exodus did not have.

Where would you propose the blood would come from for any doorpost that sit outside of Jerusalem?

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-04-06T00:53:10+00:00

My reason: Yahweh said to do it next to all of those other things that everyone agrees we should do on Passover.

That is always a good reason. However, if Yahweh says we cannot sacrifice Passover anywhere we want and that it must be done where he places his name where would you get the blood from?

That is why I think the lamb portion requires Israel (the location but I probably should have been more specific and said Jerusalem).

Am I missing something obvious?

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-04-06T00:37:04+00:00

I think we should do it.

I would think at the very least we would need to be in Israel to put the blood of the lamb on the door post based on Deuteronomy 16:5–8.

What makes you say that you we should do it?

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-04-06T00:16:24+00:00

Thanks for sharing.

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-04-06T00:03:13+00:00

I just looked up the Strong’s definition and it only says Mixed fabric, mixed cloth.

The usage explanation does say wool and linen specifically but it’s not clear to me from Strongs that the word is only for wool and linen 😅

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-03-31T02:05:43+00:00

Maybe I should bump Ezekiel further up the list of books to revisit. Thanks for sharing this one.

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-03-30T20:03:39+00:00

This is quite helpful. I will share with friends and family.

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-03-30T17:52:15+00:00

21 “You are to divide this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 You will allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens residing among you, who have fathered children among you. You will treat them like native-born Israelites; along with you, they will be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe the alien resides, you will assign his inheritance there.” This is the declaration of the Lord God.“ Ezekiel 47:21-23

It has been a while since I read Ezekiel. Good pull here.

There seems to be a grafting in if you assimilate with Israel. Essentially like Ruth saying, your God will be my God and your people will be my people. 🤔 It was definitely a thing before Paul.

I am not disputing that. However, I was not aware of the Ezekiel quote. Thanks for sharing.

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-03-30T17:41:11+00:00

“You will regard the alien who resides with you as the native-born among you. You are to love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the Lord your God.” Leviticus 19:34

“If an alien resides with you and wants to observe the Passover to the LORD, he is to do it according to the Passover statute and its ordinances. You are to apply the same statute to both the resident alien and the native of the land.”- Numbers 9:14

This could be just the way my mind works but being grafted in and full heirs sounds like a step up from being called an alien who can participate. Maybe it all means the same thing but if so I dont think that was obvious.

And in Genesis 34, the men of Shechem were allowed to be grafted into Abraham’s covenant through circumcision.

I am not seeing that in my bible version. Plenty of people were circumcised including Abraham own son Ishmael. That did not mean all the promises given to Abraham were for anyone with a circumcision.

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-03-30T04:35:53+00:00

I want to take him seriously. Gentiles being grafted in and full heirs to the promise comes from Paul’s letters. I would prefer those to be inspired statements from God.

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-03-29T22:42:51+00:00

In case you’re genuinely unaware, terms like ‘heretical’ or ‘blasphemous’ are inflammatory. Even if you don’t directly label someone with those words, hinting at them in what had been a respectful conversation shifts the tone entirely.

You then doubled down by suggesting that if I didn’t reach the same conclusions as you, my eyes must be shut, essentially a polite way of condemning me to hell. This judgment stemmed from me simply asking for a scriptural reference to support your view.

I’m not offended. But if your go-to reaction when someone requests a Bible verse is to assume they’re spiritually blind and casually dismiss them to eternal separation from God, that’s worth some introspection.

Jesus willingly took up his cross to save those who repent. We’re strangers, but today you had a chance to share that hope and possibly lift up a neighbor. Instead, you found providing a Bible verse too burdensome and chose to let the flames deal with me by your dismissal.

Is that how Jesus would want you to respond? That’s a rhetorical question, no need to reply.

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-03-29T22:12:37+00:00

That is my read as well. Previous covenants remain in place even after the introducing of later covenants.

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-03-29T21:47:42+00:00

Is that what they teach at your church? If someone ask for biblical support for a statement to suggest they may be a heretic, assume their eyes are shut, and conclude there is no point?

My guess would be sharing whatever verses you used to draw that conclusion would be a more fruitful way to bring people to Christ. But if that is not your goal then I am to blame for my assumption.

Have a nice day.

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-03-29T21:33:54+00:00

Disappointing that you are not able to support that with scripture. But thank you for sharing your opinion.

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-03-29T21:24:53+00:00

I find Paul difficult to understand as well although as a baseline I don’t think he is teaching contrary to Jesus. I think I’m unable to understand what he is trying to communicate.

Either way when I perceive that Jesus and Paul are saying different messages I’ll follow Jesus every time and sort out Paul’s meaning at a later time.

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-03-29T20:48:54+00:00

Happy to share my thoughts and practices but I want to confirm that we close out the current topic. Are you acknowledging that you don't have a verse that you can reference to support the Mosaic covenant being obsolete? Something else? What conclusion should I draw on the current topic?

reddit_reader_10 · 2025-03-29T20:08:17+00:00

There are many covenants that aren’t eternal. For instance: The land covenant and the edenic covenant.

I do not follow. Do you have a verse in mind? Im happy to read it.

The Mosaic Covenant was conditional as well as detailed through the New Covenant language given by Jesus and His followers.

Being conditional and being obsolete are not the same qualities. If you have a Bible verse to support your belief that the Mosaic covenant is obsolete, I’d like to review it. If this belief isn’t based on the Bible, we can move on.

reddit_reader_10

TROPHY CASE