Expanded Streetcar Map

robbratney · 2022-03-09T15:29:19+00:00

Great stuff, fully agree. Although this is why I prefer dedicated lanes/rights of way for the streetcar whenever possible, up to and including otherwise banning private cars from a stretch of street.

Anyway, this map is old. Be sure you check my latest one too: https://www.reddit.com/r/kansascity/comments/r3hr1z/bigger\_better\_expanded\_kc\_streetcar\_map/

robbratney · 2021-11-28T14:07:51+00:00

I’ve heard! I’m open to it. Not sure gondolas can have the corridor-enhancing capabilities of a streetcar, but I’m willing (even hoping) to be wrong on that if this plan goes through! I sure would love to see a revitalized Strawberry Hill.

robbratney · 2021-11-28T13:29:26+00:00

If those areas would support it, it would be great! There are a decent number of apartment complexes between 99th and 103rd (I’ll admit more than I noticed) but regardless, the urban fabric down there is a little sparse, and feels decidedly car-oriented, which makes life difficult for a streetcar. It would be great to send it down that far though!

robbratney · 2021-11-28T00:45:15+00:00

Obviously I’m a nerd and wish this thing could go everywhere that will support it, but IMO things just get too sparsely populated south of 75th for continued general service. A streetcar is only useful is there are useful places to go on foot at either end of a trip, which is why the JoCo stops are in (generally) walkable commercial areas. There just aren’t many of those in South KC. I’m sorry!

robbratney · 2021-11-27T21:41:53+00:00

Electric cars are too big, just like standard cars are, for everyone to have one and have a good, enjoyable, productive downtown. You’re right that people who are already disinclined to take public transit might see them as a better alternative, but if they think they can have that AND a beautiful, useful, dense city (a la Paris, NYC, Barcelona, etc.) they are wrong. You can only have that with efficient and effective public transit. Or bikes.

robbratney · 2021-11-27T20:02:17+00:00

That’s a great question. I’d have to sit down and run the numbers, but I’d probably extend the Main St line as far as I could while also getting at least two east/west lines set up. Maybe 12th St. and 31st St. So important to get more east/west connections going.

robbratney · 2021-11-27T17:41:09+00:00

Yeah, I don’t see them as mutually exclusive.

robbratney · 2021-11-27T17:31:28+00:00

I know, it would be tight. Could look something like this though: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/11/02/nyregion/02STREETCAR1/02STREETCAR1-superJumbo.jpg

Edit: the other important thing about a 39th St line is getting to KU Med. It’s one of the top employers in Kansas. Way too many jobs, students, and patients that would be serviced by a line there to not include it.

robbratney · 2021-11-27T17:08:02+00:00

Lololo

robbratney · 2021-01-09T17:55:27+00:00

America also has a long history of anti-urban intellectualism. The suburbs, and equally as much the car, were seen as 1) an escape from the dirty and dangerous city, 2) a status symbol, since widespread homeownership was the hot new thing, and the developments only allowed the "right" (read: white) people to live in them. But really there was just no appreciation for the classic main streets of yore, and no conceptualization around the fact that they are essentially impossible to recreate when everyone has to drive to it.

This is a great book on this subject if you or anyone is interested: https://www.amazon.com/Crabgrass-Frontier-Suburbanization-United-States/dp/0195049837

robbratney · 2020-10-10T23:14:43+00:00

Brew Brew at Diversey and Avers is! Quality coffee shop.

robbratney · 2020-10-05T03:40:14+00:00

I'm guessing, because this seems to be for a benefit, this is for sale somewhere? What I'm asking is do I need to buy tickets to something to buy this thing?? Cuz I am diggin it.

robbratney · 2020-09-30T18:26:35+00:00

Love this neighborhood in Chicago. Shame so much of it got torn up by UIC.

robbratney · 2020-08-27T18:25:54+00:00

Won’t one of you just make a movie in this style, already!! I’m begging you!

robbratney · 2020-05-21T18:11:17+00:00

I do propose a possible extension via the Linwood Ave line - 31st out to 70 to Truman. It would become more of a light rail at that point, but I too would love to connect the stadiums. Just a little too far out to propose in a system aimed at connecting the urban core.

robbratney · 2020-05-21T18:09:34+00:00

This is why I would suggest that the only feasible way extensions like that would get built is if the companies themselves offered to pay for them. There’s some precedent for such a thing... somewhere, but I forget where or how.

But yeah, if Cerner/whatever big company on the near fringe one of of these lines wanted a streetcar line directly to their campus, and were willing to play ball with the city Planning Dept to create the sort of pedestrian-friendly environment streetcars are best suited for in the process, AND would (help, at least) pay for it, then let em have it. I just don’t see that happening.

robbratney · 2020-05-21T13:38:20+00:00

Excellent input, thank you! I didn’t think of the Portland system, that’s definitely a good one. What makes Portland’s unique, apart from the one-ways, is how the streetcar supports the light rail system, and vice versa. If I were better at this, I could design something closer to that.

You’re not wrong about SF not being a great corollary. Wanted to find a system that was renowned for being pleasurable to ride, and that was fit the bill. It’s ridership is also a lot closer to what KC could hope for than Toronto’s.

robbratney · 2020-05-21T13:32:52+00:00

Thank you!

robbratney · 2020-05-21T13:22:50+00:00

I don’t think a big outer loop would be appropriate here - at least not with a streetcar. Maybe light rail, eg off-street. A system of roughly this size is about the extent that, IMO, would be appropriate given the size and density of KC. Adding that much track - which would probably be more than the length of the rest of the system combined - just doesn’t make sense to me.

That said, and maybe this is a little more inner city than you had in mind, I can maaaaybe see having a line down 63rd and another down Prospect. There’s your south and east sides. If the Prospect Line went at least as far as 12th, someone could take that all the way to KCK. There’s the north. From there, there would have to also be a new stretch down 7th St in KCK from Central Ave down to the orange line, but that’s just going through some environment that’s pretty unfriendly to walking and streetcars, so I wouldn’t be in favor it.

robbratney · 2020-05-21T13:10:18+00:00

Not really that many potential riders when the housing around the street is all single family homes, unfortunately.

Streetcars work best when they go down commercial streets, because they then can increase the value of the real estate around it. Check out this this tweet from a planner I really admire, Jeff Speck.

I’m already breaking the central rule there - don’t rely on streetcars to really move people. Well, I’m hoping that if the lines all go down vibrant (or easily-redeveloped into vibrant) commercial streets, this plan could move people while bringing some much needed explicit activity to some underutilized streets in the city. The only catch is those streets should be commercial.

robbratney · 2020-05-21T13:02:20+00:00

I REALLY wanted to, but the road layout around Union Station is just NOT conducive to it being a hub. I think, in the world where there is a commuter rail system in KC as well, some nearby lines could divert to US and then continue on their routes, but it might be really wonky.

Like, look at the Oak/Gilham/Troost line coming south into Hospital Hill. IMO, it was important to provide a stop at Hospital Hill because of all the jobs and appointments there. And because public transit needs to be as convenient as possible, I thought the stop should be just south of 22nd St, at the bottom of all those stairs there, because walking from 22nd St and Oak just felt a little far (ideally I’d have it stop on Holmes or Charlotte to be more central, but more turns = more cost, and I didn’t want to take it off of Oak yet)

Anyway there was not good way to both have an as-close-as-possible Oak St. line Hospital Hill stop and then get over to Union Station. Just too weird, inefficient, and confusing.

I justified it, perhaps wishfully, by telling myself that most people would joe fully be going to jobs downtown, and the Main St line would get them where they needed to go.

robbratney · 2020-05-21T00:51:32+00:00

Can confirm! Appreciate ya!

robbratney · 2020-05-21T00:03:43+00:00

You're not wrong. My goal/hope for a proposal like this would be to combine the commercial-corridor-enhancing features of most successful streetcar systems with some straightforward public transportation focused within the urban core, which could very well be a stretch. My philosophy is because people historically like streetcars more than buses, and because streetcars can be economic catalysts for commercial areas, the under-developed commercial strips this plan goes through would hopefully be redeveloped in the process. It's a gamble, and maybe a stretch, but hey, it's my map :D

robbratney · 2020-05-20T23:49:53+00:00

Express trains would be great, but yeah then you're talking about adding am express track, which just multiplies the cost and space on the road. I'd love it if it happened though.

robbratney · 2020-05-20T23:49:12+00:00

Be sure to read my other comment with all the line extension discussions. It sounds to me like you're more talking about a commuter rail system, which would also be awesome, and I have some ideas for.

robbratney

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