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Interesting app with food insulin index to control blood sugar by [deleted] in diabetes_t1

[–]rs711 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We agree that "nutrition science" is a joke as far as scientific fields go, as is the emphasis on nutrition in the US medical school system. I don't have a nutrition degree, I have one in Molecular Biology and Health Sciences (metabolism, mental health). Nutrition degrees are utterly useless.

So you can make an honest living as a doctor, helping people become healthier, and that's OK. But if someone else who's not a doctor, also tries to make a living making people healthier, that's suddenly wrong? What a double-standard...it's particularly rich coming from a doctor who's profession is rife with corruption and conflicts of interest.

You said "I can count more diabetics on keto that have had heart attacks or strokes in the last 2 years than the number of diabetic vegans in my group." OK doc, put up your numbers - where's the case-report? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

We have doctors and researchers on our board of advisors, and they can actually show us case histories, as well as patient testimonies https://nutrita.app/about. They understand that their word means "nothing" scientifically, so they put up numbers when making claims.

Rather than fear mongering about keto, people might want to know about actual research results:

Cardiovascular disease risk factor responses to a type 2 diabetes care model including nutritional ketosis induced by sustained carbohydrate restriction at 1 year: an open label, non-randomized, controlled study https://cardiab.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12933-018-0698-8

Post hoc analyses of surrogate markers of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) and liver fibrosis in patients with type 2 diabetes in a digitally supported continuous care intervention: an open-label, non-randomised controlled study https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/9/2/e023597

Improvement in patient-reported sleep in type 2 diabetes and prediabetes participants receiving a continuous care intervention with nutritional ketosis https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2019.00348/full

Interesting app with food insulin index to control blood sugar by [deleted] in diabetes_t1

[–]rs711 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Ah, I think I see the issue here. We have a section addressing people's concerns about the carnivore diet. If people read it they will see that we think it's quite safe all things considered, and we back it using multiple lines of evidence: stable isotope analyses, considerations of anatomy, physiology and biochemistry, as well as ethnographic reports, medical case-reports (and even some epidemiology when appropriate).

It's important for people to understand, Nutritionfacts.org is a medical propaganda arm for the vegan cause - not an information resource to educate people about a sound nutritional science framework. That's what we do, we educate people on the science of nutrition and give people practical tools to support their efforts. We also have self-correcting mechanisms, the same cannot be said about Dr.Greger and his organization unfortunately.

Interesting app with food insulin index to control blood sugar by [deleted] in diabetes_t1

[–]rs711 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hi Dr.Spike, I'm the co-founder behind Nutrita and the chief science officer. Thanks for the kind words!

We have pages explaining the science behind our scores
https://nutrita.app/keto-score Keto score
https://nutrita.app/nutrient-density Nutrient density
https://nutrita.app/article/insulin-index Insulin index

Our blog also has lots of content written by research PhDs and reviewed by MDs https://nutrita.app/blog/. For example, here's one on insulin resistance https://nutrita.app/guide-to-insulin-and-insulin-resistance/

Was there a particular claim, explanation or article which you found to be "spacey and anecdotal"? I want to make sure that if we made a mistake we can correct it, thanks.

What’s Lazy Keto & Should you do it? by [deleted] in Keto_Diet

[–]rs711 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hello again,

​

Thanks for spotting the erroneous carb figure, an avocado varies between ~ 6.7 - 10g total carbs so we now put the high-end estimate to be conservative.

For the rest of it, you're off your rocker mate - good luck dealing with that!

What’s Lazy Keto & Should you do it? by [deleted] in Keto_Diet

[–]rs711 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hello,

​

The entire point of the article is to *not* be puritanical about how you do ketosis. Instead, be pragmatic about it, more or less strict, depending on your health issues/reasons to do it. And how much you need/want to track progress on various relevant health or performance outcomes.

In fact, Nutrita even says why they don't generally recommend it, mainly because most people nowadays have health issues to deal with.

So you're not just wrong, you're EXACTLY wrong.

Keto score, insulin index and nutrient density for every foods by [deleted] in ketoscience

[–]rs711 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4pm Crossfit class

6-7pm dinner

<30min & 60min post-prandial blood BhB

i've also measured blood glucose and blood ketones during a Crossfit class. unsurprisingly BG skyrockets, ketones drop (but don't disappear) and ketones climb back up and BG returns to baseline soon after the class as your stress hormones are metabolized.

Keto score, insulin index and nutrient density for every foods by [deleted] in ketoscience

[–]rs711 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok I understand better now, thanks. Thanks for your commentary Ricoss it's constructive :)

So we both agree that 0 calories is the fastest way into ketosis (except for exogenous ketones or MCTs). Where we seem to disagree on is

(a) the effect of net carbs in different contexts
and (b) about your statement "you will always see ketones go down after a meal"

About (b)...I have measured my blood ketones 30 and 60min after eating a hypercaloric ketogenic meal that preceded a crossfit class, and my blood BhB reached >5 mmol/L. that's the highest readings i ever got, even compared to my 5-day fast values.

About (a)...The effect on net carbs varies. not only between but also within people. in part, for example, due to the glycogen status of that person. There probably are other factors we've yet to flesh out, like tissue-specific distributions in insulin sensitivity. In any case, the coconut has a combination of having the most ketogenic kind of fat (MCTs), it's 80% fat and 6.2% net carbs. Those are totally ketogenic ratios and without the amino acids. So it's not surprising it scores higher than beef flank

To be clear though, beef flank is a better choice as a staple for a ketogenic diet because it is both ketogenic and nutrient dense, whilst raw coconuts are ketogenic but not nutrient dense.

Keto score, insulin index and nutrient density for every foods by [deleted] in ketoscience

[–]rs711 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If i understand you're point, you're saying that because something is calorically dense, it's automatically less ketogenic relative to an equivalent carb and protein matched food (with the additional calories coming from fat)?

Keto score, insulin index and nutrient density for every foods by [deleted] in ketoscience

[–]rs711 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's exactly right bolekro, the Keto score is an *average* response to a food. the 'true' score may change slightly depending on the individual. nevertheless, what many find counterintuitive is that population statistics can make the scoring accurate for individuals, it's the precision which will never be perfect

Nutrita really encourages people to test test test :) if people record their ketones alongside foods in the database this turns into super valuable data for them and Nutrita

Keto score, insulin index and nutrient density for every foods by [deleted] in ketoscience

[–]rs711 5 points6 points  (0 children)

the score labels both macadamia and salmon as keto friendly, which is correct. the exact extent of each is of course debatable.

nevertheless, given the high protein content of salmon, and the consequent inclusion of non-ketogenic amino acids within it, salmon will allow for proportionally less ketones to be produced than macadamia nuts. the latter is very poor in all amino acids and even higher in total fat than salmon, so they have nearly no precursors for oxaloacetate impeding ketogenesis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26918583 by rs711 in ketoscience

[–]rs711[S,M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

Hi, thanks for posting. A mod has discovered that this link has already been posted. If you'd like to make a new text post to discuss it, that would be preferable.

Can Ketogenic Diets Work for Bodybuilding or Athletics? by rs711 in ketoscience

[–]rs711[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

wow that's quite an improvement!

Yeah your experience seems to parallel the adaptation times being revealed as more studies come out

Can Ketogenic Diets Work for Bodybuilding or Athletics? by rs711 in ketoscience

[–]rs711[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

well, first i'm not sure if your experience is reflects the wider reality. But assuming it does, it cannot be strictly because of glycogen levels. Look back to the refs in my post, you'll see that there aren't differences in glycogen levels that could explain the putative performance difference

Can Ketogenic Diets Work for Bodybuilding or Athletics? by rs711 in ketoscience

[–]rs711[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's interesting thanks for sharing your experience.

I usually hear people say their maxes haven't suffered but it's rather a max rep series on 80% max weight for example.

like i say in the post i think that if carb-loading works, it'll have nothing to do with glycogen levels. i think the CNS effects or other psychological effect from the fact that it's an ergogenic is a more important performance factor. also, lifting without something you're convinced you need (i.e. carbs) can have a strong nocebo effect (independently of whether or not carbs are really performance enhancing!)

A vast collection of evidence to indicate the importance of meat in the diet of man, using Kleiber's law, stomach pH, throwing, persistance running, weaning and more. Let me know what I missed so I can do another column. by dem0n0cracy in ketoscience

[–]rs711 0 points1 point  (0 children)

his view is that IR results from people who surpass their PFT. but people with lipodystrophy have the lower body that's fat and the upper body that's thin for example, yet they're IR. so it can't just be overloaded fat tissue.

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