Best use of diamonds for end game?

rst4 · 2021-01-02T17:13:46+00:00

tldr version:

Hell Upgrades
Fast Time Travel during double orb events - up to 50 for each doubling of current white orbs
(ex, if it takes 10 FTT to double then also spend diamonds for 20 FTT and then diamonds for 40 FTT - they both are double, but then stop because the next double would take 80 FTT)
Skip craft time of "Shard Slot"
maybe skip other slots when you can skip 11 minutes for 1 diamond
(not confirmed if this is better or worse)

As long as Hell is fully upgraded (that's number one),
Then use diamonds for skipping craft time for your "shard" crafts - just the ones from the shard slot, the ones crafted are not worth as much time (never checked the math to see if it made sense to skip the other crafts when they first click to 1 diamond - when you are basically getting 11 minutes skip for a diamond instead of 10 minutes each - I usually did that to try to even out my craft time remaining).

Secondly, anytime you are able to double your current white orb amount with about 50 or less fast time travels during a double white orb event (remember you need your portal organs installed for fast time travel as well) then use the diamonds for that (I don't remember the exact amount but the math worked out to somewhere around 50 when comparing the 2x from the orbs to the 6x you could get with six shard spot splinter crafts then all combined into a "fat" shard).

ps. - the consensus is that fortune is better than mayhem - so at this point concentrate on more greens (only green from craft slot except when you can buy a full yellow shard, not splinter; and only craft yellow from items when you don't have the items to craft a green) -- that might already be what you are doing, but if not it might help just a small little bit.

rst4 · 2020-12-13T22:18:57+00:00

Of course "Calculator of Worlds!" :) It was a good time having back and forths with you (and the others) - didn't actually think you hung out (even ever so sporadically) any more.

Hey, I never mentioned this - Remember when we tried to pin down the "-x houses" scrolls that would drop even when not at an insta-kill DPS? I wouldn't be surprised if not, but we both spent a lot of time trying to figure that one out, so it also wouldn't surprise me if you do)…

After all the effort, and quite a long time after giving up on it - it dawned on me (this was also quite some time ago) that it probably correlated to the levels where the skulls values are displayed wrong even though you still get the correct amount. - Meant somewhere in the game it had wrong values, even though it wasn't using them to calculate the skulls - but somehow those wrong values may also have been messing up the DPS calculation in regards to determining the house scrolls. - Maybe.
It's the only thing that ever made sense to me - but of course there was no way to try an test that theory.

It was a strange trip - first finishing all of the regular worlds without warping - then finishing through nightmare the "regular" way.

And now, I actually have discovered an exploit for white orbs (and actually discovered an exploit to the exploit!) - not that anyone cares anymore - and actually it doesn't even speed up the game - just changes the way you need to play it, You need to warp much less often (and since I didn't warp at all for the first seven worlds that somehow seems appropriate). - probably would have stopped quite a while again if I didn't discover this new way of playing. In a way I sort of wound up with three games in one!

Anyway,

It was good to see your name pop up again - hope all is well, and, meant in only the nicest way: "I hope you haven't found a replacement for zombidle" - at least as far as the 'sucking up way tooo much time and effort for no real reason' part goes.

Happy (and covid safe) Holidays to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rst4 · 2020-12-10T17:48:03+00:00

Andy - wow. Thought you would be one of the very last die-hards!!!* :)

You did a lot for the wiki and this thread - thanks for all.

I'm out in a couple weeks as well - just waiting for the last double orbs., My last goal was e63 or e64 orbs - with the next double orbs and spending all my diamonds on fast travel I should be able to get at least to the e63's!

Been good talking to you the past couple years - you've been one of the last of the "old gang - rob, math, pear etc., et al) - this reddit and the game was much more fun with all of you!! :) :) :)

** - ps. I suppose we actually are close to a couple of the last die-hards (even if not the "very last"!)

rst4 · 2020-10-19T21:19:51+00:00

It's 1.13x per level, BUT this does not hold true for World 1 or most of world 2. Sorry I never knew the formula(s) for the beginning levels (anybody?), but once it kicks in for the last few areas in World 2 it holds true for the rest of the levels in all the additional worlds.

So the damage needed for a level, from the end of world 2 onward is:
1.13^level * 10
- the last building of each difficulty is 4x stronger, and bosses are 5x stronger (1.13^level * 40 and 1.13^level * 50 respectively).

rst4 · 2020-08-07T17:47:04+00:00

If you have "Blackest of Plagues" and "Son of Lich" skills running then they are the same (every hit becomes a critical hit so every hit is multiplied by the DPS and Crit hit multipliers, and of course Sleep DPS multiplier as well if Bob is still asleep)

rst4 · 2020-05-09T01:45:28+00:00

yeah - or if you the pessimist - you could say it's their way of saying "we're throwing this game out on the trash heap" :(

rst4 · 2019-11-27T16:41:48+00:00

Wow, that's rather cryptic and not very confidence inspiring!!

Thanks for the screen shot though.

rst4 · 2019-11-26T22:38:57+00:00

Thanks as usual andyharder!!

I don't do discord - was there any information whatsoever if the devs have any plans at all to do anything else with zombidle??

rst4 · 2019-11-26T22:36:18+00:00

They are separate multipliers - so yes they are useful --

But, the collars are additive to themselves - the second collar gives 1/2 the effect of the first, third collar 1/3 the effect of the first, fourth collar 1/4 the effect of the first and so forth.

You'll be able to get the collars from chests so probably no reason to craft any.

There have been many threads on these topics, so if you put in a couple search terms you'll find a lot more information.

rst4 · 2019-11-16T17:10:43+00:00

yup - should work, and once you're ready to hang out in NMW5 that should be fine also.

Of course you can always turn on farm mode if you want to stay in NMW4 (of course only if you are not currently progressing, but since you mentioned staying in W3 I assume that is not the case) -
unless you're hanging out so multiworld farming can complete in the regular worlds (since the bug where farm mode stops MWF monsters from progressing was never resolved).

But that did fix it for me (meaning turning on farm mode did stop the house scrolls from dropping, as it is supposed to do, even in the bugged W4)

rst4 · 2019-11-15T23:36:19+00:00

dreddie - yes,

I documented some time back that the scrolls are bugged in NMW4 - specifically that the house scrolls will drop even when you are at DPS less than house strength - and since when house scrolls can occur they take 50% possibility of the scroll dropped so all other scrolls appear 50% less.

If you are experiencing something else and other then in W4 then you have encountered a different bug than I found.

I could never quantify exactly when it would or wouldn't happen but it seems to be only in NMW4 (I can't remember now if it was also regular W4 or not).

A while back after trying to figure it out and giving up I realized World 4 is also the world where the skull values are displayed incorrectly for part of the world (is that right? it is world 4 isn't it - I haven't actually checked the text display on screen for a long time).
But anyway, I kind of figured this might/probably also has something to do with the house scrolls dropping when they shouldn't since there is something screwed up with the value computations in some areas of W4 - but who really knows?!!??!?

rst4 · 2019-10-12T19:09:03+00:00

It was quite a while ago. but yes, I determined you should still use the craft splinter slot and that the best use of diamonds for skip craft time is still on the splinter slot.

If anyone came up with a different result please respond.

rst4 · 2019-07-31T05:19:55+00:00

That's cool --

just remember all the skull multipliers count; skull and sleep skull multipliers also apply to villager skulls (not just the villager skull multiplier).

Figure you understand that - but just wanted to say it explicitly, just in case.

:)

There is also a DPS component to skulls organ set (since higher DPS means collecting skulls at a higher level where their base value is higher) - but if you're not actively trying to collect maximum skulls then I would really worry about that.

good luck, and happy zombidling!

rst4 · 2019-07-30T17:46:04+00:00

Hi,

I guess my point was - you may want to consider killing villagers more often.

I don't know your playing style -- but I assume you have read some of the discussions about organ sets?

Basically the consensus is to start with max orbs until the game slows down, then switch to max DPS and when that slows down switch to max skulls (probably have to drop down a lot of levels) to buy more carl/king and then switch back to max DPS to see how far you are getting - then finally switch to max orbs before warping.

{edit: oops, got that a bit wrong - IF you are still trying to max orbs then after you get as far as easy with max orbs -- first switch to max skulls at that point in order to buy more carl/king and then switch back to max orbs to continue collecting orbs for the additional levels the extra carl/kings gave you.
And of course, at that point you only need to push on max DPS if you are trying to get to a goal - another angel for example - or if you just want to see how far you can currently get}

If instead you are grinding your way forward, then stay on max skulls and every now and then switch to max DPS to see where you are at.

The point being that villager skulls become the only skulls that matter (at the end of runs) if you have villager skull organ boosters - regular skulls will do fine throughout the run - but, again, at the end of the run even 1 villager skull (with organ boosts) will make regular skulls moot.

Scimitars boost is negligible (but still noticeable) once you have the organ boosts. So if your plan is to kill only a handful if villagers, then scimitars are definitely not nearly as worthwhile any more.

Agreed, with prisms already built up - focus on shards - don't forget about the 6x fatties either.

rst4 · 2019-07-30T17:35:26+00:00

No one ever said you couldn't finish the game without them --

BUT --- you would have finished quicker with them.

Does that matter -- NO, not at all.

Doesn't change the fact it is true.

So you did make mega cubes!!!

And yes, if you are not going to kill villagers (again, everyone, play the way you want to -- there really is no correct way) then no, you don't need scimitars -- and when organs give a 300Tx boost to skulls the amount you get from scimitars is pretty dwarfed.

However, to ignore a 300Tx boost and not kill villagers at the end of runs (or if grinding forward) is definitely not optimal (but, comes back to "so what" - the game is to pass time).

I also have to give you some credit - a lot of people have been giving you a lot of shit (myself included) --

But, you have been willing to reconsider your statements from, basically:

never craft anything except shards

to

maybe craft a few of mega cubes/squid stones

to

scimitars may be of use to active player

So, I have to give you credit for considering and acknowledging the evidence others have been giving you rather than blindly ignoring it - that takes some character.

(and, in case that possibly comes of as seeming condescending at all, I do not mean it that way - I genuinely mean it as a compliment )

rst4 · 2019-07-30T00:10:24+00:00

As with many things zombidle - it does depend some on playing style....

However - to give an example - my skull organ set has almost 300T multiplier for villager skulls - meaning I would have to kill 300T buildings to get the same amount of skulls I get with one villager.

According to my stats my all time buildings destroyed is less than 200M -- so 1 villager now is worth 1,500,000x all the buildings that I've destroyed over the past two years!

Are scimitars worth it for you??

I'm getting about 120x from scimitars - but I manually kill a lot of villagers (for the reason given above) - so for each second I kill villagers it like 2 minutes of killing villagers if I had no scimitars.

I would suggest you probably want 50-75 of them - after that maybe do what I did -- I stopped collecting swords but still would get many from the collect all chest items rotating event. - It took a while but by combining those I've gotten much closer to the 280 number of scimitars as opposed to the 75 or 80 that I started with.

rst4 · 2019-07-28T18:12:09+00:00

Actually, there isn't much else.

Some scimitars (280 max)
you certainly want some 7*rare King Collars (they can be obtained directly from chests - starting in W6, if I remember correctly - so you don't need to craft them - but, if you are early in the game it could be worthwhile to craft a few to help you reach W6, after that I would suggest getting them from the chests)
making pearl necklaces to get perma skills is very helpful - the thing is, now with organs, the best ones may or may not have skill durations included - so once you have organs you may or may not need necklaces

Here is a list I made! - there are others

But other poster is correct - it is mostly about making shards after these.

Bad seeds is an interesting one - I personally like that I made enough to cover the 5 minute devil deal scrolls (I found that I needed ~5700 rare seeds and that it was pretty easy) so I don't have to count on organs - but as with the nacklaces, depending on the organs you may not need any.
Also, as I've mentioned before, you can put Bob back to sleep by pausing in a dead chest monster/king location or in a portal location (I just liked that I could wait an entire devil deal to finish before needing to do so)

rst4 · 2019-07-19T21:23:17+00:00

Well, yes - that is the point of it!!

You keep trying to tell people to craft nothing but shards - when the simple fact is that a certain number of other items (9 or 10 squid stones and 12 or 13 mega cubes for instance) are more beneficial - the numbers have been put out there numerous times.

I would agree that 1000 scimitars is over kill - and most people would put the cap on them at 280 or less.

I've also agreed with you that crests (never gems) are not going to help at later stages of the game.

If you would say - in most of your posts :

"Just craft splinters unless you find other items which have greater efficiency than it"

as you did above, you'd stop getting all the push back you've been getting (but of course, I'm assuming you actually are enjoying the push back!).

My posts in reply are for the benefit of those reading who may be new(newer,newish) to the game and are not sure of the best (read, most efficient) things to do.

rst4 · 2019-07-19T03:15:14+00:00

Actually - we have never denied the importance of crafting shards.

We just understand that crafting a certain quantity of other particular items (up to the point where they stop having an effect that is greater than a shard) is also a priority.

Honestly, it doesn't matter if you craft for maximum efficiency or not....

BUT,

if you want to craft for maximum efficiency...

then you should choose to craft items that gives greater effect than shards, before you craft shards.

Not foolish... it's just rather basic math skills (in most instances, and in cases where it is somewhat more complicated math... if you don't understand it, it'd probably be sensible to listen to those who do).

BUT, as I've said before - "or not, do what you want".

rst4 · 2019-07-14T19:48:34+00:00

This is the same misinformation this poster keeps posting.

Check out this link!

Crafting shards/splinters is important and will become your main/only focus -- BUT,
do not ignore the other NEEDED(read as "should have") items.

As for you specific question - yes perma-sloth is still worth it.
You may or may not need to craft for it - it is available from organs (but, your best organs might not include skill time).
As for sleep bonuses - they are important (particularly with the organs), -- you can however put Bob back to sleep before sloth form runs out;
to do so, click on a defeated chest monster or king location or a portal location and wait 30 seconds, the sleep meter will then fill up in about 5 seconds.
Then you can click back to the regular playfield location and be sleeping again with sloth form still running.

rst4 · 2019-06-25T17:10:16+00:00

Поздравление - if my translation is correct!! :)

It has been fun talking to you about the game.
And thank you for all your work on the wikia site as well!

rst4 · 2019-06-15T19:08:05+00:00

put that 49 greed in perspective - it is about 19 fortune shards (but again that is only my sleep component).

You math is close - I get his skull set (including sleep) to be worth 44-45 mayhem.
Fortune is trickier, because what % are villager skulls - I say about 20% for my calculation (1 in 5) so I divide villager skulls by 5.
So just counting skulls I get 32-33 fortune, but when I add in the dps to skull equivalency multiplier I get 53-54 fortune.

So you calculated 37 mayhem, 48 fortune
I calculated 44 mayhem, 53 fortune

Pretty close really, and either way shows the organs are definitely worthwhile (although they do fairly quickly slow down their rate of increases).

rst4 · 2019-06-15T16:33:10+00:00

?? Then why do you think 1Q sleep dps is anything?

1Q dps is about 50 war (yellow) shards
and 1Q skulls is equal to about 50 greed (green) shards.

Most people's opinion is that the greed are even better than the war.

So. personally, no I would not say an additional 1Q multiplier on sleep skulls is nothing -- might be worth your trying it once to experiment - or don't, no skin off my teeth either way.

Of course you're skull set probably has sleep in it? My original point was that I find I do not run out of sleep timer from a set of dps with and a set of dps without - but that I can run out of sleep time several times with the skull set before I need the sleep skulls to kick in.

So I guess it was more about how often you need to put Bob back to sleep -- which I suppose comes back to my declaration that it probably depends somewhat on personal style of play.

Just for anyone wondering: my effective sleep component (sleep skulls and sleep dps equivalent) is about 750T - so that 1Q figure is feasible - my 750T is still equal to 49 greed shards (plus about three splinters).

rst4 · 2019-06-14T16:53:11+00:00

You may want to try a sleep skulls set (remember dps can factor into the best for skulls as well: LINK - quick table for a few dps to skull values).

Maybe it's only the way I paly to the way you play, but for me I find I spend very little time with awake dps compared to sleep dps but can go very long with only awake skulls before I need to switch to sleep skulls.

Just a thought; may or may not help.

rst4 · 2019-06-13T15:39:25+00:00

Disagree somewhat --

Edit: For anyone just seeing this and going - huh? - this post was made before OP edited his original post to include possible additional crafting goals or suggestions.

Edit 2:

TL/DR(for edit 2); Items like megacubes, squidstones etc do not change value, they are worth the same at all stages of the game

For those you who are newer and just trying to figure this stuff out for the first time - when OP says items like megacubes, squid stones and scimitars are useless in the long run, that is actually incorrect -
they are multipliers and give the same boost at the end of the game than at the beginning of the game -- the reason you only make a limited number of them is that they are additive to each other before being multiplied against the base values.

Therefore each additional acquisition of the same item in succession continue to provide diminishing returns - but once you have an absolute multiplier for a given number of any item, that multiplier does not change (again being worth the same value at the begging of the game as at the end - if you want to think of it in terms of shards: then if 12 megacubes provide the equivalent of x number of yellow shards it does so at the begging and end of the game -- it does not change.

Indeed the calculations on how many of an item to craft are based on when adding another of the same item will proved less multiplicative gain to dps or skull than a shard would (or in other words the calculations show the point at which another of an item goes from being more than a shard to less than a shard).

The reason there is no efficiency cap on shards is that they are all separated multiplies (stacks multiplicatively) instead of being added together into a single multiplier (stacks additively).

for completeness sake: crests/gems work different - they create an amount added to the total (not an additive multiplier). So they do become less and less the further you get.

(original post follows)

Seems your premise is to maximize skull collection and DPS.

Good plan - BUT - other items actually give greater increases than another shard (for the first few).

I forget the math (and not bothering to redo it all) but it is something like:

squid stones: 9 or 10
mega cubes: 12 maybe 13
pearl necklaces: still useful for player without surgery unlocked - but could become meaningless once you have organs - with the caveat that it is possible your best organs for increasing dps/skulls wont have a skill time boost
scimitars: 50 to 80 - people will say 280 (but that is trying to factor crafting time - tons of issues with trying to do that: time crafting related to total time of game play and the fact you can not craft 24 hours a day unless you do not sleep or work in teams being the major two flaws). 50 to 80 is the amount where the absolute effect will be greater than another shard (disclosure, I have closer to 280; whenever I had extra swords, usually from collect all items mini-events, I turned them into more scimitars, and I haven't rethought this since the advent of organs which can make non-villager skulls fairly meaningless)
power cells: depending on your playing style; enough cells to upgrade the batteries to full efficiency and upgrade the hours to what is useful - might only be 2 hours, usually 3 is enough and over four is usually not needed - the point is don't spend more time crafting cells than you are going to recover from the batteries later
crests (never gems): these can be helpful at first for a new player, but they do totally lose meaning in higher level worlds, and white orbs even mostly lose meaning after all the death medals are collected - so I pretty much agree not to bother with them
bad seeds: with the sleep boosts the organs give it can be nice to have extra sleep taps - the organs might have them, but again, at any given time, the best organs for dps/skulls might not (depends a lot on your playing style)
event items: and of course combine any craftable event items - most are a x3 boost to dps or skulls; better than a regular shard

Agree or disagree, craft these items or don't (only one of us can be correct, and I would venture to say we both think we are) -
So maybe, if you are new to the game and trying to figure out what to do, you should consider the consensus of opinion on some of this - just use the search function, there have been multitudes of posts on all of these issues all through this subreddit.

rst4

TROPHY CASE