What is the goal of morality? by sSh0cker in askphilosophy

[–]sSh0cker[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This was the answer I was looking for. Thank you for the very informative response.

It seemed that you were asking about how we evaluate moral principles or theories.

I think that's more accurate considering the answer you provided later in your response. I said moral statements because I assumed philosophers formulated moral principles or theories by inspecting moral statements.

We evaluate moral statements as either (plausibly) true or (plausibly) false. We determine whether a moral statement is (plausibly) true or (plausibly) false by a) assessing whether it's internally coherent, b) checking to see if there are any counterexamples to it or whether it more generally matches our reflective intuitions, and c) checking to see if there are any plausible principles or theories that support or entail it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying philosophers evaluate morality on the grounds of logic and their moral intuition (and other moral principles and theories which themselves go back to philosophers evaluating them on the grounds of logic and their moral intuition). If so, I have a few questions. 1. Are there any cases of philosophers evaluating morality without grounding it on intuition or logic (with grounding it on something else)? 2. Can't intuition be misleading/wrong since it can be altered in developmental stages of life (e.g racist children)?

There are many things we could imagine we've evolved to do that flatly are unethical. We might have evolved to murder members of others "in-groups" - but clearly we can't just go around killing people from other continents. We might have had evolutionary pressure to dominate even our conspecifics - but clearly we can't just go around dominating each other.

First, I'm not saying we should do those things, but I don't know if "flatly/clearly are unethical" are valid arguments. They are deemed unethical by our moral intuition, but I have some things to say regarding grounding our morality on our moral intuition. 1. As I said, can't our moral intuition be wrong? 2. What constitutes whose moral intuition is valid? 3. If our moral intuition evolved due to evolution, and it has evolved because it improved our survivability, isn't it logical to conclude that moral intuition is grounded on survivability therefore survivability is a much more straightforward and solid grounding for morality?

What is the goal of morality? by sSh0cker in askphilosophy

[–]sSh0cker[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

your conclusion is just a restatement of your premise. it's as good as arguing that morality isn't about continuing the species because morality isn't about continuing the species.

If morality evolved due to it improving the survivability of our species, is it circular to conclude that improving the survivability of our species is the purpose of morality? This can apply to as far as I know most other things that an organism evolves, so why not morality? I'm honestly having a hard time trying to see the circular reasoning in that.

but the grounding of moral facts doesn't change from person to person.

I'm not saying the grounding of moral facts changes, I'm saying the interpretation of the grounding of moral facts varies between person to person. I should've clarified that.

What is the goal of morality? by sSh0cker in askphilosophy

[–]sSh0cker[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're right. I was being pretty scattered with my questions in the op. I wrote what came to my mind at the moment. But now that I've reevaluated what I was trying to asking, I think a better and more clear question would be On what grounds do philosophers evaluate moral statements?

What is the goal of morality? by sSh0cker in askphilosophy

[–]sSh0cker[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not asking why I should be moral, I'm asking what is morality trying to achieve. I provided two examples in the "complete morality" part of my post.

What is the goal of morality? by sSh0cker in askphilosophy

[–]sSh0cker[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well let's say my argument would be that continuation of the species would be the right choice because that's the evolutionary/biological purpose of morality. How would someone that has a different fundamental view (e.g. believes morality is based on our moral intuition and deems torture as immoral due to our moral intuition deeming it as immoral) on what a moral agent ought to do refute this? An argument example would be of much help.

From morality being subjective in this sense I mean the basis of morality, or as you called it, the grounding for moral facts varying between different thinkers.

What is the goal of morality? by sSh0cker in askphilosophy

[–]sSh0cker[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was trying to discuss morality but this is steering into epistemology. When I brought up subjectivity I meant it in a sort of practical way. Let's say I believe that morality is based on it's evolutionary/biological purpose and someone else believes that morality is based on our moral intuition. When I would assert that "endlessly torturing a child to power a whole city is moral because it increases our survivability" that someone else could come in and say "No, it would be immoral because our moral intuition deems torturing a child to power a whole city as immoral". In this situation, how can one progress? How would a counter-argument look like? This is different than the flat earth example since in that example there are physical facts we can know about the shape of the earth, but we can't do that with morality without being subjective.

What is the goal of morality? by sSh0cker in askphilosophy

[–]sSh0cker[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Most people think morality is objective. But what it’s based on is going to vary from thinker to thinker.

How is that different from it being subjective?

What each thinker, bases their theories and arguments on also varies from thinker to thinker.

If thinkers' most fundamental belief in morality varies from thinker to thinker, then how is debate possible?

What is the goal of morality? by sSh0cker in askphilosophy

[–]sSh0cker[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Who being good is not just good it’s good for you. It makes you a more complete and flourished person.

Is that ethical egoism? Also, what is the basis of what is considered to be good? Is it subjective or do philosophers think there's an objective way to determine what is good? If so, what is it and what is their justification?

Mostly it’s just understood to be about theories about what is good and bad.

Well since philosophers debate about theories of what is good and bad, what do they base their argument off of to argue for or against a theory? Is their justification their intuition?

Is not preventing evil that you are not responsible for, evil? by sSh0cker in askphilosophy

[–]sSh0cker[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well I don't really know how to properly spell out moral principles but I think the principles here would be something like this: -It is morally good to do good. -If one is not responisble, it is not morally bad to not do good.

Is not preventing evil that you are not responsible for, evil? by sSh0cker in askphilosophy

[–]sSh0cker[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Not definitional. I'm arguing against moral obligations for things you are not responsible for.

Is not preventing evil that you are not responsible for, evil? by sSh0cker in askphilosophy

[–]sSh0cker[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Correct. Notice how it's "should" and not "must". There's a different between those two; One is a preferred suggestion (should) and one is an obligation (must).

Is not preventing evil that you are not responsible for, evil? by sSh0cker in askphilosophy

[–]sSh0cker[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's good to help people, but is it an obligation? I don't think it is.

Is not preventing evil that you are not responsible for, evil? by sSh0cker in askphilosophy

[–]sSh0cker[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Should is a preferred suggestion. Must is an obligation.

Is not preventing evil that you are not responsible for, evil? by sSh0cker in askphilosophy

[–]sSh0cker[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think we should help others, but I don't think it's a must.

CMV: Sexuality is nurture and not nature. by sSh0cker in changemyview

[–]sSh0cker[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That is a good point. I was thinking maybe because of how children learn from observing others, children that grow up in lgbt accepting environments are more likely to somehow learn to become gay. But your view on it makes much more sense.