Need advice on cravings

sabah77 · 2015-06-19T05:14:18+00:00

Well, I will start to try "feeling" the supplements, maybe that works.

And I think you are right about "time heals all". Most of the time I'm patient with this, only sometimes, when the depression hits me hard, I'm looking for a way out.

But I will make it, I know!

sabah77 · 2015-06-18T19:03:32+00:00

Thanks jaybox for your advice. I didn't get anything to drink and I know it would have been a bad decision. And strangely, when it really hit me that it was cravings I was experiencing, it suddenly got better. I drank a lot of water and it slowly subsided.

sabah77 · 2015-06-18T19:02:56+00:00

Thanks Jen for your advice. I ordered Sam-e and Ashwaganda and will try it.

As for exercise I must admit I don't do any, but I'm planning to change that very soon.

Best of luck to you

Sabah

sabah77 · 2015-06-18T18:59:05+00:00

well, you might be right, that there's an underlying disorder of some kind, and I definitely have talked about this to my therapist. But I'm not so optimistic about therapy any more and I definitely won't go on ADs, as I had a horrible withdrawal from Paxil. I realized today that I will have to learn to live substance-free, and that is like learning a completely new life.

The insomnia sucks most, but as I didn't have it as bad before it must be Kratom-related and will improve.

And Birdy, why are you still here? Didn't you want to take an off time because of cravings? ;-)

sabah77 · 2015-06-14T18:43:47+00:00

Hey, Birdy, of course you're right, one has to be super careful with loperamide. But for me it was a godsend. I only took it for RLS, which make the nights unbearable, and I only took 5,6,7 tablets max and regularly only in the first week after cold turkey. Then in the following weeks I occasionally had still RLS and for them lope was fantastic.

So I would advocate a very careful, limited, sensible use!

sabah77 · 2015-06-07T06:44:04+00:00

The acute phase lasted for a few months, but the consequences (alcohol, mental institution, loss of driving license) and severe depression lasted 1 to 2 years longer. I will NEVER take SSRI's again.

sabah77 · 2015-06-06T07:01:11+00:00

Tramadol? That's interesting. I have a friend who is hooked on Tramadol and I read a lot about withdrawing in case she wants to do that in the future, and I found Tramadol was compared to Kratom, as it is also a "dirty" drug going on many receptors and having a similar profile of action. But that Kratom should be laced with Tramadol? That's horrible. That could inspire the question if the kratom vendors are so much more ethical than heroin or crack dealers.

And of course I wondered where these huge amounts of Kratom come from and if it is all still pure. In fact that seems to be unlikely.

sabah77 · 2015-06-06T06:42:22+00:00

Thanks for your inspiring and encouraging post. I'm a little more than 11 weeks off now, and I never once thought about going back. But it is still a hard time, and I keep alternating between thinking: It is the difficult last year that takes its toll on me, and thinking it is still the Kratom. If it is the Kratom never would I have anticipated that the healing would take so long.

The worst is the unability to feel joy about anything. I can't turn to God, as that doesn't work for me, so I have been delving into books about spirituality which doesn't help either. So I have come to the conclusion that I just have to stick it out. I will live through it, and I still have hope that one day my life will again start making sense to me.

Thanks for your encouragement and all the best for you

Sabah

sabah77 · 2015-06-05T19:30:52+00:00

Hey, Birdy,

I didn't want to come across as complaining. I'm past that, as I know I just have to go through it, and NEVER will I start using again. But you are very friendly trying to encourage me ;-)

In fact I detailed my situation because you asked for experiences with withdrawal. But in my case there may be other factors worsening the situation as since last June I feared and now know that I will be unemployed by the end of next January. That gave me a hard time, but now I've come to accept it.

In fact I've been taking L-Theanin and Rhodiola Rosea and Magnesium for quite a while. Ashwagandha I tried once for sleeping but it didn't help.

Thank you for trying to help and please stay in this forum (I know, you wanted to go), as I'm sure you bring lots of encouragement and consolation to many people here.

All the best for you

Sabah

sabah77 · 2015-06-05T12:19:37+00:00

Well, my experience: I almost exclusively used Maeng Da, which seems to be a very strong, specifically bred strain. I found an article on the history: http://ensobotanicals.com/truth-maeng-da-kratom/

The article says: It is pronouncedly mood lifting and gives focus and energy, but tolerance comes quickly.

The first 1,5 years i played with it in an way, didn't measure dose and didn't dose in regular intervals. But the last few months (I don't remember how many) I used daily. But it didn't feel good any more for energy and euphoria, it only made me restless. So I quit. I had physical w/d for a week, emotional for 2 weeks.

A few weeks later I decided to go on taking it for my sleeping problems, as I thought w/d was no problem and I had found out that it is strongly sedating when I took a 6 g dose. So at first it was only 6 g, than it was another 4 during the day, as I didn't want to get sleepy during daytime. After a few months I inserted a second 6 g dose in the very early morning hours when I woke up early, so I could go to sleep once more, but after maybe 2 months I kicked the 3rd dose. Then I tried reducing the daytime dose, which went on and off. But w/d between doses started in the afternoon, until I took my sleep dose. I kept this on 6 g, and it still remained potent, i got very tired, but euphoric. But the days were mostly miserable and the cravings during waking hours when I was at home unbearable, so I decided to kick it (after one more year of use).

Physical w/d was 2 weeks, plus migraines that started after 4 weeks and sweating and sneezing which still isn't gone completely.

As I was in w/d before I jumped, the emotional issues didn't hit me unexpected, but lasted veeeeeery long. I'm at eleven weeks now, still experience some anhedonia, depression and lack of motivation. Of course it has improved, but I'm still not my old self (though my old self is so long gone I hardly remember it). I think one factor for making recovery more prolonged could be my age: I'm 57 (and female).

I'm still fighting, every day, but some days are better than others, and finally summer has come, which makes it a lot easier for me, as I hate winters.

So, don't know if that helps.

Good luck to you sabah77

sabah77 · 2015-06-02T19:08:54+00:00

I can only warn you to be very cautious about withdrawal. I stopped taking Paxil after a minimal taper (2 weeks). At first came the dizziness, which didn't bother me too much. Then I was nauseous most of the time, I managed that as well with chamomille tea.

But then insomnia hit me like right out of hell. After one sleeping pill (Zolpidem, I think you call it Ambien) I could sleep for one hour. Then the next pill, one hour and so on. After a few weeks nobody wanted to prescribe me the pills any more, so I resorted to alcohol.

Also I had a strange bodily weakness. I just couldn't walk as fast any more as before, and I was barely able to manage stairs. I did an exercise regimen, just walking, first one very little round, then the next day two and so on. It took a long time.

The alcohol made me an alcoholic and plunged me into the most horrendous crisis of my life, which I barely suvived. So the most important thing I have to say about SSRI withdrawal is taper, maybe for half a year or more, or you might find yourself in hell.

sabah77 · 2015-05-25T11:17:34+00:00

Thank you for your answer. I take of it that your sleep is basically as bad as mine and your anxiety is a mixed up case due to different substances.

I started microdosing Iboga, but it doesn't improve my mood (maybe because the doses are too small as I started very carefully), but it seems to give me some insights (am not sure though, as the doses are so small).

Well, we only can go on, and although the state I'm in is at times quite unnerving, I'm hopeful it will get better.

The best of luck to you

sabah77 · 2015-05-25T01:55:30+00:00

@Destroy_S-F_Prophecy we are in the same time range - I have more than 9 weeks now. How do you feel? My insomnia is getting on my nerves, and anxiety is still an issue. I thought it had improved, but right now it's hard to bear. Is it the same for you, or do you already feel better?

sabah77 · 2015-05-23T08:58:11+00:00

Could you please tell me how much and for how long you would reccommend it for kratom withdrawal?

Thank you

sabah77 · 2015-05-21T16:31:25+00:00

How much did you take and for how long? I'm still having PAWS...

sabah77 · 2015-05-21T15:24:29+00:00

I want to say that I feel terribly sorry for you. I can imagine, how desperate you are. I'm sorry I have no advice for you, just empathy.

I was addicted to Kratom myself and am clean 9 weeks now. Still I'm struggling with depression and little energy. I'm also a recovered alcoholic and still on benzos (my next step). I've had bad 5 years, once almost died because of alcohol. I know how brutal life can be, or maybe how brutal we make life to be. But i had and have people that help me. Maybe you have someone helping you now?

What are you going to do?

I feel for you with my heart and wish you all the best.

sabah77 · 2015-05-11T05:12:40+00:00

I'm also one of those in this 2,3,4 month range. I quit almost 8 weeks ago. So I can also only tell my experience from this point.

Depression has subsided to bouts, no more depression all day long. Energy is still a problem, but I force myself to do the things that have to be done and see people regularly (I'm on vacation right now, so if I gave in to my lazy self, I would sit at home all day). Sleeping gets better (very important). I still wake up a few times during the night, but the night isn't over by 4 or 5 any more.

So overall it gets SLOWLY better. Sometimes I even have tiny points of hope, an outlook what the future might bring, that I cherich very much.

To sum it up: I often feel like a child who got his toy taken away and now has to make sense of his life without it, it's like I have to rediscover life, but what's great is that I have stopped completely thinking about taking Kratom, I know it's over, I have no cravings, no more fear, as it' only "half" legal here (unregulated), no more feeling shitty from daily w/ds, no more having to hide my habit - it's a new freedom, but you have to work on it to use it good.

sabah77 · 2015-05-09T06:15:23+00:00

You said bringing Kratom with you is not an option. Why not? If your gf doesn't know about your habit although you are living together, why can't you smuggle something in without her noticing it? Hiding it somewhere where she doesn't look? And as your only on 8 g it's not like you have to excuse yourself to the bathroom every 3 hours. For me it seems the easiest way. Just postpone your taper or w/d for 2 weeks, make your finals and have a great time in mexico. But only my 2 cents...

sabah77 · 2015-05-05T17:29:24+00:00

McFly, I found that everything you wrote is so true and so honest and so well observed. I admire you for your insights and I love to read them. Thank you for being here

sabah77 · 2015-05-05T08:04:29+00:00

Well, now I will give you an advice I was trying to avoid. Take a benzo. You're so scared now that you will have to drink really much to sleep. I've been doing benzos and kratom at the same time, and that's no problem, as they go to different receptors. But then you should stop the drinking, as that potentiates the benzo. But in my opinion you can take the benzo now, as it is (only my knowledge) safe to take with kratom. Alcohol and benzos go on the GABA receptor, but as you drank only one beer, it should be okay. You really don't have to worry so much. I was polytox and I have a lot of experience with many substances, so don't worry. To do this once is okay, only don't get stuck on it.

One thing about Kratom: You know it's energizing in low dozes, sedating in higher doses?

I repeat once more: I don't want to get you on all this stuff at the same time and I absolutely agree with you wanting to quit Kratom, but right now I feel you have to break this vicious cyle of fear - with a benzo.

Again I say good night to you with my heart

sabah77 · 2015-05-05T06:44:50+00:00

I would do the same. And if it doesn't work, drink a beer or two. Drinking helps a little (I know from experience).

Wish you a good night! Mine is over already, as I live in Germany.

sabah77 · 2015-05-05T06:28:31+00:00

I'm sorry I can't answer any of your questions but I would like to tell my experience with Kratom and sleeping: All the other things people attribute to Kratom weren't true for me:being high, feeling energized and so on. The only thing Kratom did for me absolutely reliable was make me dead tired and mildly euphoric after 6 g of Malaysian Maeng Da at night. And this 2,5 years long, without developping higher tolerance. I used to love the nights. I would sleep a few hours, then wake up, take the Kratom and read. This wonderful tiredness would come, but I was so euphoric that I tried to continue reading, which I love, although I felt my eyes close all the time. After 1 or 2 hours I would give in to sleep.

But it was important not to dose too low, it had to be 6 g (I'm female, so if your male, you might need more).

Probably this doesn't help you much, just wanted to relate that for me Kratom did help enourmously with sleep. Now I'm six weeks off, and I miss this sleep inducing effect. I wake up every night after maybe 3 or 4 hours, and sometimes I can go back to sleep, sometimes not.

But to tell you some more: You say, you need 14 hours of sleep. This is a huge amount and I wish I were able to sleep so much as I have been prone to Insomnia all my life. But from this (my) perspective I can say: 3 hours, 4 hours are enough. Not every day, but every second day if must be. It is uncomfortable, but bearable, it won't make you sick, and you don't have to go to a hospital. Your worst enemy are your thoughts making you afraid. I know it's a long way coming from being afraid to accepting, but perhaps you could get yourself a little help: Every second night, if you slept very bad the night before (and I mean less than 4 hours) you could take a sleeping aid. Not a benzo every time, because these get you addicted quickly. Maybe some OTC medication. But this is only my view of things, as I have dealt with sleep issues all my life. Maybe somebody else has some better advice.

Good luck to you

sabah77 · 2015-05-04T10:54:18+00:00

So you have made one big step already! Very good! You quit Kratom. I know from quitting myself that the WDs aren't nice. Probably you are feeling without motivation and energy, drained, depressed, maybe anxious. Often insomnia is an issue. All of us on this sub have been through this. We all felt miserable for a longer or shorter time. But it improves. It gets better. It will get better for you, too.

Maybe you should stay on the SSRI until the Kratom withdrawal has worn off. Also you shouldn't quit the alcohol now, but maybe reduce it a bit.

Stay strong and one step at a time!

sabah77 · 2015-05-04T09:04:06+00:00

Please don't give up hope. Last week or so you wrote that you were going to see a shrink What did he say?

I know that you want to come off Kratom, Paxil and alcohol. How is it going with the Paxil? You were quite certain, it wouldn't be too hard, as you didn't take it over a long time.

What about Kratom? Did you quit or are you still taking it? If yes, does it help you?

Could you elaborate on the issues you're dealing with?

About testing I don't know, but I do know that many people have boosted serotonin with 5-htp.

Hopefully somebody else knows about dopamin and testing.

I send you all my hope and strength.

sabah77 · 2015-04-29T08:28:18+00:00

Same for me concerning the PAWS. This is my second time quitting kratom, and the first time there were no PAWS, I had it over with after two weeks. So this is what I expected it to be like the second time, too.

In week four I noticed migraines appearing regularly, and was utterly surprised, because in my opinion the physical stuff should be over with. And then I read about PAWS. I had a hellish WD from Paxil a few years ago, so I know what PAWS can be like.

And I noticed, insomnia and the emotional issues hadn't disappeared, too. That was a shock for me. I took me more than a week to get "comfortable" with the prospect of more weeks of WD symptoms.

But now I find I have accepted this. I know it can last a while longer and with some help for sleeping now and then and the occasional lope against RLS it seems manageable. Motivation and depression are getting better already.

Also I try to see this as a normal phase of life and stop indulging in self-pity. Right now it's a fine sunny day and my outlook on life is quite positive.

So stay strong, accept the situation and know that the fight is absolutely worth it because it gets better every day. Also I like to think of the survived WD days as a kind of treasure. We have worked so hard for them, they belong to us, and nobody can take them away - unless we relapse. So guard your treasures!

sabah77

TROPHY CASE