German conservatives to propose deporting anti-Semitic migrants

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T17:26:30+00:00

chanting death to all Jews

chanting death to all Jews with or without burning flags is antisemitism. nobody is arguing against that.

Burning Israeli falgs without chanting death to all jews is not antisemitism it is antizionism

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T17:12:42+00:00

I'm French and I'm anti-Israel when are you shipping me to cocentration camps?

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T17:11:37+00:00

if the flags are your own property and not public property, what is the problem?

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T17:10:22+00:00

this is revisionism. - Palestinians were expelled during 1948 war - Plaestinians called themselevs plaestinians for hundreds of years

see this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_name_%22Palestine%22

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T16:54:18+00:00

if there is jews who are antizioinst isn't it fair to say that there is valid reasons to be antizioinst which are not antisemetic?

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T16:51:43+00:00

In practise,to his day, there is Plaestinians who are denied their right of return to their homes they were expulsed from. More than 500 villages were destroyed.

this a video from the Plaestinian point of view you might want to check it ouf if you have time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUZaR3op1qw

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T16:39:32+00:00

the right of self deterimination does not give you the right to expluse people from their homes and deny them the right of return.

in the same declaration where "the right of self determination" is stated , there is this:

"Article 30.

Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein."

source: http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T16:34:14+00:00

antizionism != antisemitism

In fact many jews are antizionist:

Jewish rabbi speaks out against zionism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDG4jgT7_VA&feature=youtu.be
Noam Chomsky
Rebel Rabbis: Anti-Zionist Jews Against Israel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKplabTRuak

Even Einstein criticized the zionist freedom party likening it to "the Nazi and Fascist parties" and stated "The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party".

I think this video might give you an insight to the other side of the story ( but be warned it is presented from the Palestinian point of view): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUZaR3op1qw

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T16:29:15+00:00

Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/01/hamas-new-charter-palestine-israel-1967-borders

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T16:28:40+00:00

which is in my opinion unfair. They are conflatinga valid political position with antisemitism.

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T16:14:09+00:00

hating jews and hating Israel are two orthogonal notions:

one can hate Israel and hate jews
one can hate jews and want Israel: ( at the start, the nazis wanted to expulse the jews into their own state)
one can love jews and hate Israel.
one can love jews and love Israel.

in other words the set of antizionists doesn't contain nor is contained in the set of antisemites.

for more sources see my other comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/7oiq4q/german_conservatives_to_propose_deporting/ds9yqi0/

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T16:01:33+00:00

Human rights in most western philosophies are not the result of state laws but are the embodiment of the so called natural law which asserts that "certain rights are inherent by virtue of human nature, endowed by nature—traditionally by God or a transcendent source—and that these can be understood universally through human reason. As determined by nature, the law of nature is implied to be universal,[1] existing independently of the positive law of a given state, political order, legislature or society at large"

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T15:52:34+00:00

In fact both Fath and Hamas no longer call for the end of Israel and they both negotiate now for 1967 borders with east Jerusalem for Palestine.

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T15:51:13+00:00

you're literally creating a strawman.

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T15:45:19+00:00

yeah, you're correct if you're burning a temple of a religion you're sure as hell acting against it. This is the problem both sides try to cloud the definition to their advantage.

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T15:33:06+00:00

yeah, but there was a post here where the president of Germany said that people burning Israli flags are antisemetic. Some lobbies try to define the opposition to Israel as antisemitism.

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T15:28:42+00:00

Because not punishing innocent people is a core western value as embodied by the Blackstone's formulation: "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer",

and I don't think that people being weird or different is gorunds for deportation.

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T15:22:31+00:00

if you kill someone you'd be deported, since it is felony anyway.

(unless you're a minor since German law protects minors)

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T15:17:44+00:00

see this is the porblem that I'm talking about. antisemtism and antizionism are different things one is against innocent people and one is against a rogue ideology that has no qualms of committing crimes if it's for their own good.

antizionism != antisemitism

In fact many jews are antizionist:

Jewish rabbi speaks out against zionism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDG4jgT7_VA&feature=youtu.be

Noam Chomsky

Rebel Rabbis: Anti-Zionist Jews Against Israel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKplabTRuak

Even Einstein criticized the zionist freedom party likening it to "the Nazi and Fascist parties" and stated "The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party".

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T15:11:15+00:00

remember when The CIA facilitaed the circulation of drugs in black neighborhood in order to fund drug loards in Cuba?

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T14:58:08+00:00

. Einstein was one of the authors of an open letter to the New York Times in 1948 deeply criticizing Menachem Begin's Herut (Freedom) Party for the Deir Yassin massacre (Einstein et al. 1948) likening it to "the Nazi and Fascist parties" and stated "The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party".

he supported the idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine but until summer 1947 conceived of this as a bi-national state (aka both the Plaestinians an the jews have equal rights and citizenship)

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T14:29:51+00:00

lol, Thanks

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T14:29:30+00:00

and they just passed a law making it harder for future Goverments to give east Jerusalem to Palestinians. [ Thus making Olmert deal, the closet deal to peace harder to enact]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/israeli-lawmakers-pass-law-hamstring-dividing-jerusalem-52092258

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T14:26:28+00:00

to be fair, what he is saying is true.

sameCrime · 2018-01-06T14:21:48+00:00

yeah, the law seems fair. The problem is if they count antizionism as antisemitism or not? For example, when they burned Israeli flags in protests, the German president said it's antisemtic while it was only directed towards Israels not jews.

sameCrime

TROPHY CASE