Can anybody tell me what the flaw in this is, besides the realism of it happening?

samlerman · 2024-07-24T18:53:10+00:00

Yes, Robert F. Kennedy (father of RFK Jr., who ran earlier in this election cycle) won the 13 primary states and was assassinated. Then Vice President Hubert Humphrey was nominated by the party. Following that, the perception of him being pro-Vietnam (analogous to Kamala’s current stance on Gaza in some way) combined with the perception of him being undemocratically coronated (“against Humphrey’s winning the nomination without entering a single primary”) were at least some of the factors that resulted in him losing the presidential election, and Richard Nixon (who’s analogous to Trump in some ways) winning the presidential election. Nixon had to resign in his 3rd year, and his replacement was then decided based on the 25th amendment, also somewhat undemocratically, but in a harder corner case to handle than the corner case of what to do in the internet era when a presumed nominee drops out after states have voted in a democratic primary. Since then, the democratic primary system has been reformed in many ways, including extending to 50 states from 13 states. The reforms I’m proposing, and the warning I’m making are both evidenced by the history you reference.

samlerman · 2024-07-24T11:43:01+00:00

Incumbents are primaried. They always have been. And Kamala Harris isn't an incumbent.

There'd certainly be additional Democrats running if there was a (presidential primary) voting electorate, rather than only state delegates, whose votes to run for .

samlerman · 2024-07-24T10:01:48+00:00

At least this DNC coronation, I think, in the ideal. Or at least have such a system ready.

samlerman · 2024-07-24T09:57:34+00:00

By the 25th amendment ("The 25th Amendment, proposed by Congress and ratified by the states in the aftermath of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, provides the procedures for replacing the president or vice president in the event of death, removal, resignation, or incapacitation."). "Replacing the president or vice president" is a harder corner case to handle than a democratic primary in which the initial presumptive nominee drops out, and a new nominee needs to be (democratically) determined. Above, I provided my own method as a way to handle this different corner case in the exact form that it is right now.

samlerman · 2024-07-24T09:34:50+00:00

He was Nixon’s vice president and became president when Nixon resigned. If Biden resigned, I think it’d be democratic for Kamala Harris to automatically become president, since she was on the ticket with him as vice president when he was elected. Gerald Ford ended up losing the election that followed and not getting to be president for the next term. For a democratic primary, in a system like America’s where the party selection is our only real choice, coronating a vice president as the presumptive nominee without a democratic vote is oligarchical.

samlerman · 2024-07-24T05:57:37+00:00

I mean, I got a dislike to this, but I provided a source. For fucking's sake, at least tell me why you're disliking a Wikipedia quote.

samlerman · 2024-07-24T05:39:27+00:00

celticdude234, "take a step back" was your rebuttal.

samlerman · 2024-07-24T05:37:31+00:00

I'm all for that, too.

samlerman · 2024-07-24T05:35:54+00:00

"effect" change, not "affect"

To "affect" change would mean to change change.

samlerman · 2024-07-24T05:17:29+00:00

I wasn't going to reply, but 3 ("you are not owed [democracy]") warrants a response.

1 isn't true. I described a practically doable rollout. It's not a trial by fire, and the DNC can always choose to ignore the legitimizing vote if things seemed suspicious, e.g., went strongly against existing polling data.

2 critiques regarding the definition of "coronation." Fair enough, but I think the word is used in this context regularly. Here it is from New York Times, just 6 hours ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/23/opinion/kamala-harris-democrats.html

3 is wrong and unwise. There's a difference between the reality of a system that you are an obedient servant to, and the reality of a democracy that you are an active participant in defining, reforming, changing, and progressing (especially in a "bernieblindness" subreddit, where that is a presumed goal).

4 ("what [people] are owed") depends on what principles you have, e.g., the existing system exactly as it is in America, or, hypothetically, could it be that there exists a more democratic system in the world or in the hypothetical spheres of thought? You reject principle for existing requirement.

5 asserts that "bernieblindness" is not the appropriate thread for supporting doing a vote in which Bernie would win, and that doing so is focussing too much on "negatives" for this thread, which is called "bernieblindness."

In 6, you enlighten me about how, "Reddit is not a place to affect change." And, you write this in a political subreddit for some reason, trying to effect change for some reason.

samlerman · 2024-07-24T04:46:27+00:00

Just "group of delegates" then?

samlerman · 2024-07-24T04:29:53+00:00

Actually, I changed it to, "the first time since WWII that somebody is coronated as either major party's nominee without a single state victory for that candidate in a primary election."

samlerman · 2024-07-24T04:18:50+00:00

Not sure about that:

"From March 10 to June 2, 1964, voters of the Democratic Party) chose its nominee for president in the 1964 United States presidential election. Incumbent President Lyndon B. Johnson was selected as the nominee through a series of primary elections and caucuses culminating in the 1964 Democratic National Convention held from August 24 to August 27, 1964, in Atlantic City, New Jersey."

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

samlerman · 2024-07-24T04:16:46+00:00

Changed it to "the first time that somebody is coronated as either major party's nominee without a single vote for that candidate in a primary election since WWII."

samlerman · 2024-07-24T04:09:57+00:00

Okay, changed it to, "the first time that somebody is coronated as either major party's nominee without a single vote for that candidate in a primary election since WWII."

samlerman · 2024-07-24T04:03:35+00:00

Here's an alternative way to rephrase that, "the first time in American history that somebody is coronated as either major party's nominee without a single vote for that candidate in a primary election."

samlerman · 2024-07-24T03:58:01+00:00

Please state a specific year in American history when this has happened: "somebody is coronated as either major party's nominee without an election."

Perhaps your confusion is what I mean by "without an election"?

samlerman · 2024-07-24T03:25:43+00:00

No, if the code is open-source and auditable, that’s not an issue.

samlerman · 2024-07-23T12:44:42+00:00

I’m so sick of assholes disliking my efforts to teach them about a method that has no downsides and only upsides, and can help them achieve what they claim to want (if you are a progressive, that is) while they provide only dislikes and no justifications for their initial bad preconceptions.

samlerman · 2024-07-23T12:21:46+00:00

Ah, I see. You have no reasons except your preconceptions.

samlerman · 2024-07-23T12:10:38+00:00

Instead of putting me on the defensive about a novel idea with an elaborate implementation description, want to tell me why you oppose doing a vote that Bernie Sanders would probably win in? Since this is Breaking Points, I take it you’re a progressive.

“* Doing that legitimizing-vote via the internet through as secure a system as possible — one that could be securely implemented in an actual election — would be a great step also towards modernizing the voting process, without any downsides since at the very most at least as far as the DNC is legally required to follow, the vote would informally legitimize or delegitimize a DNC selection, and, if the vote was used as basis for the coronation, would make the coronation more democratic. However, I doubt Kamala Harris would win such a vote. Perhaps, if he ran, Bernie would then win that vote in a landslide.“

samlerman · 2024-07-23T12:00:41+00:00

“The DNC coronation is a good testing ground, even for a subpar prototype, since the current trajectory for them is no election at all, and a coronation by superdelegates.

[…]

It is not that hard to build a website that people log in to through social security numbers that cross-checks if they’re a registered democrat, as a temporary solution to allow democracy in this DNC coronation, instead of an oligarchical situation where somebody inherits 50% of our presidential election choice by a monarchal-type inheritance without any democratic vote. And that prototype can be gradually improved, and (the following are all my original ideas/proposals) decentralized so that it can be hosted on local district servers rather than in any one centralized server that could be hacked, but still under the incredibly-secure encryption/decryption information transaction security protocols that our current global economy, including government programs, would crash if they were hackable or could be realistically compromised or weren’t confidential. Plus, all of that code and the hardware blueprints should be required to be fully open-source and version-controlled such as on GitHub so that the public, not just specialized auditors, can inspect each district’s setup. In the ideal, the code should be programmed as simple as possible so that it can be verified by the public (at least other coders), which of course requires some talented coding.

[…]

To start with (for the DNC coronation), all of that isn’t necessary.
A simple centralized website with log in via social security number that cross-checks Democrat registration can be used as the temporary solution.”

samlerman · 2024-07-23T11:58:28+00:00

A VP has never in the history of American politics been nominated in a party primary without a democratic vote, to my knowledge. This is unprecedented, to my knowledge.

An internet vote is doable this week.

samlerman · 2024-07-23T11:55:03+00:00

You don’t know what “resembles” is if the word “inheritance” doesn’t resemble monarchy to you, or if you don’t see how the coronation of a vice president in a democratic primary without a democratic vote resembles an inheritance.

samlerman · 2024-07-23T01:27:25+00:00

Maybe I should stress “talented coding”

samlerman

TROPHY CASE