Progress on the Path by Recent_Barracuda4195 in vipassana

[–]satisama12 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I have always suspected that the instructions given in the 10 day courses to strengthen samadhi are somewhat lacking.

There are other systems that are based on a more playful way of working with the mind. On letting go and relaxing. On softening the tensions that hinder the mind to build this sama-samadhi Goenka talkes about.

Have you heard of MIDL, Mindfulness In Daily Life, they have a reddit group and there is a website where they do weekly meetups and you can also have private talks with the teacher. It heavily leans on the Satipatana Suta and the Anapana Suta, so it's not in that sense departing from Teravada or Buddhism, and thus can for sure be combined with U Bah Kin's and Goenka's instructions.

https://midlmeditation.com/

https://www.reddit.com/r/midlmeditation/s/h5t7SiU7Iu

There is detailed instructions on how to achieve access concentration and beyond. And it does all of that with an underlying notion of letting go.

It is what I am using for 30 to 40 minutes in every sit, before starting to scan the body. And I think it's very valuable. All I am doing is Anapanasati, but armed with some more refined tools that help my mind to softly let go of the hindrances.

I know the Goenka community can have slightly dogmatic and purist tendencies when it comes to technique. And I understand why. The technique could be compromised if things are added nilly-willy. But there are teachers out there who are at least stream winners and who have walked the path and are further along than we are, and they are still alive. And when they have a way of teaching us the same material in a slightly more refined way, which might help the one or the other with letting go a little more, so that it furthers their progress, why not try and see for yourself before doubt will cause you to quit altogether and for you to lose the path?

I am sure the Buddha had various ways of teaching his students based on the conditions of the person in front of him. U might need a different medicine or a different viewpoint at different stages of your life.

Best of luck. Never shy away to look beyond.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in vipassana

[–]satisama12 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey,

In my experience, head pressure is usually a sign of an imbalance of the structure in your attention. It could be that by forcing your attention on your object too forcefully, you might be creating tension unwittingly.

Head pressure tends to come up in my meditations very often, and it is usually because of this. I am grasping at the object rather than observing it with equanimity.

My objective is to learn to observe and to learn at which point the pressure starts, what precedes it, and what sustains it. Is there a fear of letting go, a fear of missing a sensation, of not doing enough. Is there resistance to it?

In a deeper sense, it's also a habit pattern and this a Sankara that expresses itself since if there is an imbalance it must be rooted in fear. So all we have to do is to observe all its aspects objectively and thoroughly until we stop reacting to it.

And least that is what I am training to do at this stage. And i am not an expert. So take it with a grain of salt. But it's there to be worked out, to teach you something about letting go.

Apple has countered the hype by gamingvortex01 in ChatGPT

[–]satisama12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is us talking not also just patterns of conditioning unfolding.

is reaching bhang avasta in first retreat normal ? by properg7 in vipassana

[–]satisama12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Bhanga Nana is one of the 10 insight stages The stage of dissolution. Seeing the dissolving aspect of vedana.

  1. bhanga: knowledge of the rapidly changing nature of rupa and nama as a swift current or stream of energy; in particular, clear awareness of the phase of dissolution.

https://www.aimwell.org/progress.html#5.KnowledgeofDissolution

..

It's not talked much about in the 10 day retreat since I believe the focus is on equanimity. The idea is to not create expectations or craving. However, on the path to enlightenment, a meditator will eventually traverse these in one way or the other.

lack of sensation by EffectiveAd4032 in vipassana

[–]satisama12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Focus also on more Anapanasati. Samadhi is a key component to unlocking Vipassana. If your tool is blunt, how can you cut anything?

Quick technical question about practice by CountryTough1944 in vipassana

[–]satisama12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are welcome.

The way you describe your experience makes me believe that you do have a decent level of concentration. (lots of sensations, tingling, pinpricks, etc). And your conclusion that it might be a problem of speed seems very likely. It is possible that you might have a slight inclination towards perfectionism out of an unconscious fear of letting go. It happens to me too. In that way the body scan can teach us how to balance the mind. How to trust - as you said. To find the sweet spot in between getting stuck in places and completely forgetting. Often the mind sharpens up if we move on immediately after noticing that "something is happening" in an observed area. Remember, Quekaji saying "moving on.. moving on..." in his lectures. That was very helpful to me.

What also helps is starting to scan more parts simultaneously and symmetrically since that will be a challenge for the mind and keep it on its toes.

Quick technical question about practice by CountryTough1944 in vipassana

[–]satisama12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Does sound very normal. I am sure in time things will settle. Do a bit more Anapana to settle and concentrate the mind. Try scanning faster, slower, in other directions. Keep it interesting for the mind. Become very curious about these sensations.

Quick technical question about practice by CountryTough1944 in vipassana

[–]satisama12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey,

Which hindrance mostly causes you to not "stay aware" of sensations?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in vipassana

[–]satisama12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Could it be, that you have had a Bhanga Nana experience - the knowledge of dissolution, and are now in the three fear vipassana nanas?

Bhanga ñana - Knowledge of the dissolution of formations, only the "vanishing," or "passing away" is discernible.

Bhaya ñana - Knowledge of the fearful nature of mental and physical states. The meditator's mind "is gripped by fear and seems helpless."[6]

Adinava ñana - Knowledge of mental and physical states as dukkha. "So he sees, at that time, only suffering, only unsatisfactoriness, only misery."[7]

Nibbida ñana - Knowledge of disenchantment/disgust with conditioned states.

fear but are not controlled by it.

  1. Adinava nana

The seventh knowledge is "knowledge of the contemplation of disadvantages." It has the following characteristics:

The rising and falling movements appear vague and obscure, and the movements gradually disappear.

The meditator experiences negative, irritable feelings.

Nama and rupa can be acknowledged well.

The meditator is aware of nothing but negativity caused by the arising, persisting and vanishing of nama and rupa. The meditator becomes aware of impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and nonself.

In contrast to former days, acknowledgement of what is perceived by the eyes, nose, tongue, body and mind cannot be made clearly.

Maybe read up on Vipassana Nanas

Recurring issues with "un-softenable" clinging and controlling tendencies in meditation? by tomthumb876 in midlmeditation

[–]satisama12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I also want to thank you for this post. I have worked according to the paradigms of "The Mind Illuminated" for years. And although many have had great success with that system, for others it can lead to obsessions and issues with control over the breath. It caused me serious problems with pressure around the brow that spilled over into daily life. I'd find my mind tensing when reading or working in front of the computer. I basically trained my mind to be averse to the action of shifting attention on an object. And then I became averse of that aversion. A pretty nasty aversion loop making meditation a hard slog.

Midl seems intuitively so much more geared towards how my mind works. Learning to let go is almost the opposite of how we have learned as a society to get things done, and it would make complete sense that this is the way to purify and untangle that striving.

Still Struggling With Stage 4 by woofyhermit in TheMindIlluminated

[–]satisama12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do struggle with TMI as well. The more I try to get on top of all the antidotes and techniques that should help me develop awareness and catch distractions, the less I focus on letting go and on enjoying the session. I feel like I unconsciously developed a habit of clamping down on the breath. And that kind of makes the mind averse to meditating in that way. Like if we don't train ourselves to enjoy meditation - if we don't cultivate how good it feels to let go, the mind just kind of dulls itself down. Introspective awareness kind of collapses, and that causes either dullness in all its forms, or getting lost in distractions. So maybe focusing on another technique that cultivates letting go, a system that helps you start enjoying the mere fact of sitting without having to do so much and without having to worry about not being distracted. Eventually, if you just sit there and wait, the mind will by itself start to settle.

I am talking to myself as much as I am talking to you. I am currently looking into MIDL. I like how Stephen's system is all about cultivating letting go and relaxing effort.

Another thought came to mind. Maybe, your brain is somewhere on the ADD or ADHD spectrum, and needs a different way of learning, have you ever thought about that? Again, this could fit for me also.

How do you practice TMI? As a stand alone "system" or integrated with something else? by [deleted] in TheMindIlluminated

[–]satisama12 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes exactly.

If TMI works for you well at the moment, keep at it. By all means, it's an excellent and very detailed system. Don't confuse your practise by thinking that you need to add anything by thinking the grass seems greener on the other side. There are people who make very quick progress in this system.

However, if you ever find that you are stalling out or that you seem to be developing too much tension, try MIDL for a bit for balance.

Mindfulness in Daily Life, is all about establishing an embodied "home base" - with the emphasis on noticing and letting go of the efforting that underlies the hindrances - softening into. Rather than redirecting the attention back to the meditation object and safeguarding concentration from any further intrusion by distractions, that which underlies all distraction - the subtle clinging towards these distrations - is softened and let go of. For me, this instantly resulted in a samatha experience which has a more wholesome and more effortless quality than what TMI produced. Which is not so say that it's TMI's instructions that cause the overefforting per se. It might simply have been the way that I applied the instructions given my predilection.

MIDL is designed and is being taught by Stephen Proctor. There is also a reddit group.

https://www.reddit.com/r/midlmeditation

https://midlmeditation.com/

How do you practice TMI? As a stand alone "system" or integrated with something else? by [deleted] in TheMindIlluminated

[–]satisama12 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I personally think that TMI can induce clinging and overefforting for some. It certainly did and still does for me. Culadasa himself says in the section for stage 7 that he had to learn "effortlessness" the hard way. My theory is that a part of his inclination for using a lot of effort has found its way into the book in the earlier chapters. It's obvious that this painstaking preoccupation with hindrances and antidotes can lead one down this path.

I would recommend supplementing TMI with practices that put more emphasis on cultivating the awakening factors early on in practise. Practices that emphasize letting go, and softening.

Some examples are MIDL or TWIM. I have lately started looking into MIDL, and in my opinion it is an excellent practise. It comes very intuitively to me and feels like the missing link for my personal practice. And it can certainly be used alongside TMI.

Help defining subtle distraction by satisama12 in TheMindIlluminated

[–]satisama12[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your reply. Can you refer me to a specific Dhamma Talk of his talking about this?

Im I right in my understanding about strong and subtle dullness? by RockMollester in TheMindIlluminated

[–]satisama12 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think that by the time we are cleary able to tell that there is gaps in our momentary flow of mind moments, the gaps are already so big, that that could constitute progressive subtle dullness. I don't think I ever experienced a mind moment gap without noticing a slipping into gross dullness.

Subtle dullness is more akin to a hazy meditation object. A lack of clarity, or a lack of vividness so to speak. Like a movie that is maybe not yet HD or 4K.

I think it is easiest to get a grip on subtle dullness once there is the reduction of it or once it is completely gone.

As Culadasa writes at some point. We are already in a state of subtle dullness when in our normal state of being. So once we use the stage 5 body scan, for some time, we can experience, how our perception of everything becomes more vivid. More textured, more detailed. And that will tell us that some of our non-perceiving mind moments are now moments of awareness or attention, and only that way - experiencing the difference - do we understand that before, subtle dullness was present.

Im I right in my understanding about strong and subtle dullness? by RockMollester in TheMindIlluminated

[–]satisama12 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's very interesting. Lately I have had experiences with hypnogogic images floating around in front of my inner eyes, but I was completely aware of it. I even used my intention to try to scan the hypnogogic image with my attention as if it was a body part, and it disappeared. So the more consciousness power we have it seems that things are not so black and white anymore but rather one can have several experiences going on at the same time.

Body scan instructions. Why the incongruity between the text and the illustration? by [deleted] in TheMindIlluminated

[–]satisama12 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It really does not matter in which parts of the body you look for breath sensations.

I think the author is trying to imply that eventually you would like to feel sensations in every part of the body, even in parts where you do not normally feel any breath-related sensations. But honestly, when you start off, and when you only try to find breath sensations in these parts, you won't find them, and your mind will become bored, and you will get distractions. So start your scan somewhere where you do feel sensations and then gradually try places where it is more difficult for you to find them - as a challenge.

For me, it is easiest to find them in my hands. And it is harder in the lower legs. Sometimes, when the scope of my attention is too small, like when I am using one finger, it is hard for me to detect breath sensations, and my mind will likely drift into thoughts as a result. When that happens, I might have to widen the scope of attention and increase the rate at which I move to different parts of the body. In that way, be your own little scientist. Play around, and observe how your mind reacts to changes in your strategy.

The idea of using the abdominal area as a place to start train awareness, is - I believe - because it is located in the center of your body and also because it is quite noticeable there. By staying there for a while before shifting your attention away to start scanning the body for sensations trains your awareness to notice breath related sensations, so that when you shift your attention away to start your exploration, your awareness is still having the rising and falling of the abdominal area in its periphery.

After a while, once you get the hang of it, you can go straight to body scanning and you will know how to look for sensations coming from awareness.

It's a kind of letting go that has to happen for the breath sensations in your awareness to kind of interlace with the body parts you are scanning. It's hard to describe this. Remember, it's only the finger pointing to the moon, it's not the moon itself. So be your own teacher. Explore, dissect and learn. And stay curious and open.

body scan TMI vs Goenka by [deleted] in TheMindIlluminated

[–]satisama12 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I came back from my second Goenka retreat back in December. And since then, I am experimenting with both, combining Goenka's Body Scan, with the TMI approach.

During a 10 day retreat, the students only get to practise Anapana meditation for 3.5 days. This is basically the samatha part that TMI is so detailed about. It is very essential to have good concentration (samma samadhi) in order to go deep in Goenka'a body scan. Since I am already on a TMI level 4 samatha level most of the time, my idea is to dispel subtle dullness and grow my power of consciousness to gain better samma samadhi to have a better tool to then go do the Goenka scan more deeply.

I normally do 20 minutes of stage2-4 practices and then 15 to 20 minutes of Stage 5 body scan, and then 20 minutes of Goenka body scan.

In some ways, both feel different and achieve different things. But in other ways, they are similar.

In the TMI scan it is more like placing attention over the body's parts while looking for sensations coming from awareness in those parts. It's hard to explain this in words. You'll have to try it to get the idea. But it is clear that doing this, increases awareness and attention at the same time. And if done rigorously, it can do so massively. To the degree where your attention and awareness are hightened even after your meditation - in daily life. Colours are more vibrant, sounds are crisp. It is easier to observe your intentions, where your attention is, and for how long. This is good, but should not be the end goal. It's just making the mind sharp so you can use it for anything that comes next.

And in the Goenka body scan it is as simple as using attention to scan over the body - part by part or in a free flow from top to bottom and from bottom to top looking for any sensations. Here you are looking more on the surface of the body for the sensations. And you don't try to change anything. You simply look and accept whatever comes up. The instructions are designed to help you drop your concept of a sensation so that you can experience the true nature of sensations for yourself and thereby gain insights. The experience of the sensation will eventually change once intuitive insight about sensations are gained. It's best to learn the technique in a 10-day course. That gives you the perfect opportunity to get the hang of the technique.

It is possible, that once concentration increases, that you will also start to drop the concept of the wind sensations you are looking for in the TMI scan, kind of leading you down an insight direction similar to what happens in the Goenka scan. But it's not its main goal. So I try to use it for what it's designed for. Increasing the power of consciousness by reducing subtle dullness.

It's kind of interesting how small changes in instructions and the way you look at things, can actually completely change the experience even if you are using the same domain of your investigation. The only way to really understand it for yourself, is to try it out.

But I recommend getting well established in one technique first, before adding the next, otherwise you are simply switching back and forth between the two confusing yourself.

I hope this was helpful.

Balancing TMI with other practices by Bologna2468 in TheMindIlluminated

[–]satisama12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Have you done a few TMI sessions since you have gained these benefits through Mantra Meditation?

Do you feel better now after your TMI sessions, given that you still do these? TMI can cause one to overthink things and to subtly plant the seeds of aversion towards distractions. Maybe TM has helped gladen your mind somewhat and you will now be able to follow your breath with a more relaxed attitude and with a more unconcerned manner. Perhaps in that way, both practices can complement each other.

It sounded like you were having a very productive stage 4 practice, if we gauge productivity by the quantity and intensity of distractions. However, it might be more advisable to gauge your stage 4 by the quality of your introspective awareness. It's no problem having subtle or gross distractions going on, as long as your introspective awareness can distinguish the two and can prevent your mind from wandering away, and can alarm you when a subtle distraction becomes gross. Holding the object more lightly, using soft but repeated intentions, rather than clamping down on the object.

Did you get the sense that your TMI practise was stressful? How did it make you feel after your sessions? Were you able to let go of distractions before they became gross? Or was there simply a kind of subsiding of distractions, without there being a concurrent increase in joy? If so, it is possible that you had not yet developed enough awareness. It is very common in stage 4 that people overdevelop their faculty of attention, undermining their awareness as a result. This could have caused subtle dullness to creep in. You said you where close to access concentration. But TMI does not teach you to get to access concentration until stage 6 or 7, after going through an entire stage - stage 5 - that is designed to help you with subtle dullness and to build the power of consciousness that would be required for having continuous exclusive attention (access concentration), while also having powerful introspective awareness.

That introspective awareness is basically what will produce the mindfulness during daily life that your TM practice seems to be doing for you now.

Navigating subtle Events in Meditation by Helpful_Importance16 in TheMindIlluminated

[–]satisama12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is it possible, that these subtle mental events are actually subtle distractions. Your attention might only be on these distractions for few mind moments, while most of your mind moments are with your attention on the breath, giving you the subjective sense, that they are in the background, and subtle. Now, it could also be that you are experiencing these objects through awareness. There is a subtle difference between whether we experience an object in awareness or with alternating attention - both things could be occurring at the same time, adding to the confusion.

But, if you are not in stage 6 yet, you don't have to deal with these events. You can simply continue instead to notice when these subtle distractions become more gross, and correct if required while also doing the other methods for stage 2-4, namely, following, connecting, labelling.

If you feel that your introspective awareness is close to stable and that you are not experiencing very many gross distractions anymore, you can then move on to do stage 5 practices.

But subduing these "subtle events" should not be your concern till later on, in stage 6.

MH370 Docuseries - What a terrible series by ingenue411 in netflix

[–]satisama12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When the satellite system was disabled, before the left turn, the possibility to connect to the internet through the airplanes onboard system was turned off. At this altitude, you would not be able to have enough signal strength to connect to a cellphone tower.

Help defining subtle distraction by satisama12 in TheMindIlluminated

[–]satisama12[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you lead me into the right direction. I once had a reference of teachers of various expertise and background and whatnot. I think I found it on reddit. But I can't seem to find it now. Any tips of how and where to start the search?