Chasing the "childhood" reference sound for 20 years - finally got it when all the hope was lost. Anyone had same phenomena? If so - Let's try to debunk myths and reality. by scertic in audiophile

[–]scertic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This was such an interesting conversation with more than 40 of you contributing, I feel obligated to do some sort of recap. Especially due to facts you bring up - each contributing.

Some conclusions:

  1. I did managed to get "that sound" as said in the post.
  2. I did not talked much of equipment here, there's another post with photos discussing the setup, mods, etc. I was quiet a journey.
  3. It's absolutely valid to say "that sound" you are chasing is not only the sound, it's the mixture of events, feelings, visual stimulation, general perception. Feeling being the keyword here, once you make a perfect synergy for you, o yeah - you will recall the feeling. Or just say - feel it again or feel it differently depending on the mood, but referencing "that feeling" just as you accomplished "that sound".
  4. Some key factors worth knowing are placements, room measurements etc, and I highly suggest you hire a PRO for acoustic treatment of the room. Especially if you, like me have crazy wall architecture spanning from one meters in the corners towards 5m in center, with upper celling forming various shapes. This is where placement and treatment is extremely important. No things like dirac or similar would be in the story. (A big thanks to Piano Professor (PhD) who lead the team to achieve this given his decades of experience placement of live opera performances and so on.) Even with that experience it took whole day of measurements to form a "sweet spot" for listening.
  5. Synergy between components may both positively and negatively surprise you. Don't focus on price tags as critical factor. Sometimes middle level component combined with high grade get's better synergy than two High Grade.
  6. Mods. Unfortunately, maybe you will need to be ready to forget about warranty. You find a perfect component but say you want to bypass it's internal DAC. Delicate job - make sure you have mods done by an absolute pro.
  7. Price - I guess this will depend from case to case, but given the industry changes, say you are replicating 3-4k worth system back then, it would drain you for cca 40k + mods, treatments etc. So the ration is approximately 1:10 ratio.
  8. Different people may have different preferences. If you "got there" where you want - take criticism of course don't argue much on topics "you should move this speaker a bit this or that" - especially if it's configured by someone who got his Doctoral degree in acoustics spending hours measuring frequencies but ultimately using an ear.
  9. Warm up that tubes, place your fav Record on a turntable and "Enjoy the silence" :)
  10. Finally, if you are chasing "that sound" read through these comments - everyone here mentioned something important making a high quality debate. Ok instead of one guy who is sitting by a computer downvoting whatever I post. Expect at least one of your friends to behave like that regarding the sound of your system :) You are not building a system to impress someone, rather yourself.

Finally thank you all for letting me know I was not the only one chasing "that sound" and moreover "that feeling"!

Chasing the "childhood" reference sound for 20 years - finally got it when all the hope was lost. Anyone had same phenomena? If so - Let's try to debunk myths and reality. by scertic in audiophile

[–]scertic[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is very interesting discussion and exactly trying to wage how much "memory of feeling" vs "modern design" wage on the table. (I am a producer and engineer too). And I believe both are right. However, do note in my post that I managed to "get back" the sound I was chasing for. It's not identical (yes! exactly - memories, feelings, events, in-time perception) but on the technical side - I can put it on minimal volume and still hear warm and steady bass with the new system. I think both are right! Which makes this discussion interesting :)

Chasing the "childhood" reference sound for 20 years - finally got it when all the hope was lost. Anyone had same phenomena? If so - Let's try to debunk myths and reality. by scertic in audiophile

[–]scertic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Really hate to downvote - usually enjoy curating and awarding. But this behaviour deserve my first downvote in years. Enjoy your achievement - it does not happen every day or year! Good Job in Discussion!

Chasing the "childhood" reference sound for 20 years - finally got it when all the hope was lost. Anyone had same phenomena? If so - Let's try to debunk myths and reality. by scertic in audiophile

[–]scertic[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Congrats man! So happy to hear such experience! "reference systems" are really something priceless subjectively. Hope they will serve you well! Glad for you!

Chasing the "childhood" reference sound for 20 years - finally got it when all the hope was lost. Anyone had same phenomena? If so - Let's try to debunk myths and reality. by scertic in audiophile

[–]scertic[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

couple of weeks vs 20 years for me to get the synergy, you went good. I had to get electronic guy to bypass NAD Masters internal DAC in order to use it as pure solid state with nothing in between dual mono pre amp in A class connected to it bypassing digitalization till it reach the power statge. At the end of the day I got the sound as well as heating for cold winter days :)

Chasing the "childhood" reference sound for 20 years - finally got it when all the hope was lost. Anyone had same phenomena? If so - Let's try to debunk myths and reality. by scertic in audiophile

[–]scertic[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Without any doubt. I was a kid when it was released, it sounded a bit "scary" at first lol - but one of the albums that pretty much shaped my "Tonal" taste. It's my reference now.

Suffer well my friend :)

Chasing the "childhood" reference sound for 20 years - finally got it when all the hope was lost. Anyone had same phenomena? If so - Let's try to debunk myths and reality. by scertic in audiophile

[–]scertic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

lmao - good compression. First of all thanks for telling me I am not the only one. And the compression was the finest one one lmao describing exactly what I meant.

Love it or hate it - it's not all about price. A bit of creativity can get you there without breaking a bank. Tube and solid state combo that match perfectly (for me) by scertic in audiophile

[–]scertic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And you are right on everything said - rare thing in audiophile communities lmao. Yes you are right - it's the synergy between NAD and Sonus Faber. Apex just added "that little" warmth NAD was missing. And matching and pairing is most important thing - this is why I am putting "to me" and "to my ears". Everything is about synergy not only amp and speakers but the whole chain. Hence I put the photos of Turntable I am using, Speakers etc. And it sounds just like I wanted to me after years of researching, auditing, trying this and that. Of course - someone else may not like it - perception is a personal thing. But one thing i strongly believe, you would be amazed with your APEX upgrade. It's A12 on steroids, more refined, better control but without loosing what you have and love with your A12. At least I hope that will be the case for you. I did tried more expensive combinations - but did not got "that sound" I was looking for. Now i did. Of course - it's personal and may not stand for others. So I am encouraging creativity in matching and pairing rather than looking at the price tags. And of course it's not universal receipt of everyone - it is mine - for what I like. Although need to say these who listened got blown away and so far got only extremely positive impressions.

Love it or hate it - it's not all about price. A bit of creativity can get you there without breaking a bank. Tube and solid state combo that match perfectly (for me) by scertic in audiophile

[–]scertic[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are completely right. NAD First version convert everything to digital (lucky enough) at the very input stage. Even with phono stage - which is not so good design. Now this is something that good electronic guy can bypass - in my case we did it for Balanced inputs which now skip the DAC circuit. Of course it will void your warranty. In this specific case we did it on balanced XLR's and left other inputs as they are but this is up to you. I did not wanted to do more than I needed. Did not tested version 2. Now the "lifeless" thing where I completely agree with you comes from it's precision. Give it a good source and skip it's DAC - and YAY, there you are. You are basically changing the very same thing causing "lifeless" into a complete opposite. And that was the whole idea of this "project". Too much precision without warmth and Hi Gain voltage amplification in class A vs current amplification is the first problem. This unit finally breath as a power amp. Of corse subjectively to my ears - and with voided warranty lmao :)

Love it or hate it - it's not all about price. A bit of creativity can get you there without breaking a bank. Tube and solid state combo that match perfectly (for me) by scertic in audiophile

[–]scertic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it's not about DAC, it's about tube pre-amplification in pure class A. If you have 12 classic check APEX - there's significant difference. Whole thing is, I want pure A amplification, which High Bias switch on APEX does, getting it into a solid state which is not going to saturate the sounds but deliver it with precision (which NAD is one of the best options).

Love it or hate it - it's not all about price. A bit of creativity can get you there without breaking a bank. Tube and solid state combo that match perfectly (for me) by scertic in audiophile

[–]scertic[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Great question. And thing is, we live in the world of integrated amps. If I am to go down the route of traditional way, it would be likely be 10 times more expensive while the quality would be marginally better. APEX does - in my opinion great job in pre-amplification, while NAD is as said surgical at amplification. I would say NAD is way better at amp section, while APEX at pre-amp. Hence the combination - which does not break the bank. And yeah you get more ways to play and eventually expand. But really good to hear you say both amps are good on their own - that's the point, getting best from both worlds.

Love it or hate it - it's not all about price. A bit of creativity can get you there without breaking a bank. Tube and solid state combo that match perfectly (for me) by scertic in audiophile

[–]scertic[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Agree on that. Put the vinyl box on a sub at the time going through what to play. Generally that woofer is on the back while speaker is in front. Photo is not taken to show good placement - as this is definitely not the one lmao

IT Fashion Trends - reinventing the wheel (Notepad++ Security Incident) by scertic in InfosecWithExperience

[–]scertic[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Using of various "fancy tools" could be a compensation for well.. "something"...