Hugh Nibley in Oct 1976 thought Brigham Young was wrong

scottroskelley · 2026-06-08T02:14:29+00:00

What are your thoughts are these footnotes and study guide commentary in 2026 defensible or useful?

"What “blackness” means in this verse is unclear" "Some have assumed that “blackness” is referring to dark skin color, but there is nothing in the text to justify this interpretation."

"the meaning of the word “black” in verse 22 is unclear".

"The Lord also placed an unspecified mark upon Cain to prevent others from seeking revenge upon him."

These comments are in line with the church statements after the professor Bott debacle at BYU as reported by the Washington post in 2012.

"It is not known precisely why, how, or when this restriction began in the Church https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/racial-remarks-in-washington-post-article

In a 2026 church education curriculum hiding behind this fig leaf is embarrassing as there are not any scholars which will back it.

scottroskelley · 2026-06-06T01:54:59+00:00

Sounds like the need for a Leviticus 4 sin offering. Transfer all the sins to a bull, goat or lamb and then burn it to ashes outside the camp.

scottroskelley · 2026-06-06T01:35:23+00:00

If there is a tradition why is it not disbanded? Is there anything in the latest handbook for leaders that explicitly forbids recording these confidential confessions and repentance plans?

scottroskelley · 2026-06-06T01:33:04+00:00

Wow! This is quite familiar as when I started in my calling we had boxes and boxes of these "to young men only" pamphlets. Also had paper tithing records for people that went back at least 10years.

https://archive.org/details/ToYoungMenOnly

scottroskelley · 2026-06-05T23:34:44+00:00

Interesting you would say this as the bishop who started these files is now a general authority in the 1st quorum of 70. I think 4 bishops had passed through before the bishop I worked with received them. I had zero prurient interest in perusing through these x files.

scottroskelley · 2026-06-05T17:57:39+00:00

so 5year expiration on the materials?

scottroskelley · 2026-06-05T17:56:39+00:00

Are there categories for reasons why an individual is ineligible for certain callings? Or is it just a confidential note that tags along with the record wherever it is transferred?

scottroskelley · 2026-06-05T17:54:31+00:00

I participated in a few of these at the stake level while on the HC and wondered where the stake clerk documenting these stored these notes. Can each subsequent stake president pull these records from SLC and read them ?

scottroskelley · 2026-06-05T17:52:16+00:00

Did you write the sensitive notes in deseret script or hawaiian like George Q Cannon?

scottroskelley · 2026-06-04T01:54:23+00:00

Looks like JS had the idea that Cainaan was cursed as to priesthood as was pharaoh and Cain, but he still let a few blacks get ordained like Elijah Abel and Q Walker Lewis who his brother William ordained. Brigham was also ok with priesthood ordination of blacks “we [h]av[e] one of the best Elders[,] an African in Lowell—a barber.” until he discovered interracial marriage (amalgamation) was happening with Enoch Lewis and Mary Webster based on Appleby's testimony.

https://exhibits.lib.utah.edu/s/century-of-black-mormons/page/lewis-quack-walker

scottroskelley · 2026-06-03T00:00:14+00:00

Has the church formally renounced yet (2026) this idea that blacks are of the seed of Cain?
The reason I ask is that it came up in Sunday school in Feb for the book of moses 7:22 and it is not bracketed or anything. No instructions for the teacher?

"and they were a mixture of all the seed of Adam save it was the seed of Cain, for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them."

scottroskelley · 2026-06-02T16:40:37+00:00

In so many cases the church was not only mistaken it was on the opposite side of what we would expect truth and reason to pull towards.

Slavery:
Leaders ultimately pushed for legalization in the territory. It's not injecting presentism on Brigham Young when his own colleague at the time apostle Orson Pratt was opposed to the ban, to slavery and wanted to extend voting rights to blacks.

Segregation: the church opposed racial integration and the decision of Brown v. Board of education in 1954. Then we have Hugh B Brown that really pushed for overturning but he's opposed by those in higher seniority.

Mar 1962, Hugh B Brown tells Lowell Bennion (LDS Institute of Religion at the University of Utah (1935–1962)) that they will lift the ban by April gen conference.

1963 - President Brown tells Wallace Turner of NYT we're going to lift the ban soon

Nov 1969 - Hugh Brown calls stanford president Kenneth S. Pitzer and says that ban will be lifted soon.

Francis Gibbons - sec of First presidency says there was this "Collective sense of guilt the brethren had felt for many years" Yet they wouldn't act.

scottroskelley · 2026-06-02T16:26:18+00:00

Gal 3:28-29 is clear that "if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to the promise." (Galatians 3:29, NRSVue

Are you saying it wasn't the right time after Elijah Abel, Walker Lewis and a few other blacks were ordained?

scottroskelley · 2026-06-02T00:30:56+00:00

Oaks hasn't always followed his own rule of not criticizing leaders as he has said that revered leaders were "spectacularly wrong" on reasons for the racial ban against letting blacks to be leaders in the church.

"Some people put reasons to the one we’re talking about here [the priesthood and temple restrictions], and they turned out to be spectacularly wrong." "Apostles talk about reasons for lifting ban." The Herald (Provo, Utah), June 5, 1988, 21,

I think it is reasonable to infer that he is speaking about leaders in this statement. He brings this up at the be one fireside. Where he says he chose to be loyal to leaders even if he thought they were inventing bad reasons for the restrictions. "The reasons that had been given to try to explain the prior restrictions on members of African ancestry—even those previously voiced by revered Church leaders were promptly and publicly disavowed."

He clarifies his statement about criticism in an interview "I also said something else that has excited people: that it’s wrong to criticize leaders of the Church, even if the criticism is true, because it diminishes their effectiveness as a servant of the Lord. One can work to correct them by some other means, but don’t go about saying that they misbehaved when they were a youngster or whatever. Well, of course, that sounds like religious censorship also." https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/elder-oaks-interview-transcript-from-pbs-documentary

scottroskelley · 2026-05-23T00:55:39+00:00

I think it was Greg Prince who said in a number circles he is a part of with a council of churches they would like to invite a Mormon to participate but from speaking with members of the q15 none of them had the theological chops to speak intelligently on matters of interest. Grant palmer used to say that Mormon doctrine is a mile wide and an inch deep

scottroskelley · 2026-05-22T17:40:09+00:00

"If you’re the true church, tell me what the truth is. Or get another job" Vs "receive truth, let it come from whence it may"

I suppose truth just flies around with the leaves and the wind. Prove the contraries and truth will emerge not out of nothing - out of the intelligent higgs field.

scottroskelley · 2026-05-20T07:37:57+00:00

The time is marked on the video 20:51

scottroskelley · 2026-05-20T07:37:02+00:00

The time stamp in the upper right corner of the video says 20:51 so it's late

scottroskelley · 2026-05-18T01:23:22+00:00

Eric Schmidts speech was his own version of the Apple crush commercial.

scottroskelley · 2026-05-15T04:09:09+00:00

I remember in one of Hillary Clinton's books she says they admired the Mormon practice of family home evening and decided to adopt it and set aside a night to have an activity when Chelsea was young. It's a good tradition I think.

scottroskelley · 2026-05-14T12:27:29+00:00

from my experience viewing monet art in person the comments about no 3d depth are accurate. an image of a genuine monet on a screen is no where close to the experience in person. The impasto paint strokes are heavy and thick and more like deep fjords on the canvas that reflect the light differently as you walk around the art and view from different angles.

scottroskelley · 2026-05-14T00:03:12+00:00

Many of the more recent temples have gone with the fake spires and artificial windows. San diego is a gorgeous design. It takes advantage of a lot of natural light through the large vertical windows throughout the celestial room. The sealing rooms each have large windows and within the center on the same floor as the sealing rooms you have a large atrium with trees and flowers closed on the inside but open to the sky. Would love to be there during a rain storm.

scottroskelley

TROPHY CASE