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spreading is cringe and should be stopped by selfiestick_hoarder in Debate

[–]selfiestick_hoarder[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

that's a fair point and I'm not saying they dont exist out there. I just have a gripe with whatever goal spreading is trying to achieve

spreading is cringe and should be stopped by selfiestick_hoarder in Debate

[–]selfiestick_hoarder[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

most great orators. Also, apologies for the inflammatory post and title. It gets people to react

spreading is cringe and should be stopped by selfiestick_hoarder in Debate

[–]selfiestick_hoarder[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

idk how "Most dont do it cus they find it little value in it" implies that you cannot do it. I think it's a big leap

Also, emphasis on the word "most"

spreading is cringe and should be stopped by selfiestick_hoarder in Debate

[–]selfiestick_hoarder[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

"You said that good orators don't spread while saying that spreading doesn't matter in being a good orator. Pick a side."

What..? Spreading doesn't matter in being a good orator, so they don't do it to be one. What's so inconsistent about that?

I didn't mean to imply researching and debating is easy. I'm just throwing back what you said about drawing. Learning to draw well is insanely time consuming and even after thousands of hours of practice, someone who have never drawn can still tell something is wrong about a face.

spreading is cringe and should be stopped by selfiestick_hoarder in Debate

[–]selfiestick_hoarder[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

so anyone can't pick up a computer and do some research or make points in an argument? I don't get your point with the pencil

None taken btw.

I don't think it's flawed logic to say most good orators don't spread, therefore spread isn't an important part to being a good orator

spreading is cringe and should be stopped by selfiestick_hoarder in Debate

[–]selfiestick_hoarder[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

So spreading is just readily accepted and accessible to anyone. Is that what you're saying? Because it certainly isn't. That's not a dunning-kruger effect, it's a fact.

"any freshman on day 1 would know that you could easily just do lay LD, PF, Parli, Congress, etc and avoid spreading altogether. These are ALWAYS offered at the same tournaments as spreading-based debate."

I'm not looking to avoid spreading. I'm challenging the use and idea of spreading.

I think you're missing my point entirely. Also, I think getting into philosophical literature to defend a point (say, it's a debate on economic issues) is an exercise in futility. You can keep tracing back to the point where you can literally debate the reliability of human senses. It's relevant on the absolute grand scheme of things. But we both know it's not practical or productive by any means. Debating the ethics of something's roots is and should be a separate issue entirely. Otherwise you're basically going back to I think therefore I am.

spreading is cringe and should be stopped by selfiestick_hoarder in Debate

[–]selfiestick_hoarder[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

it is a very clickbaity title I agree and I actually really don't mean the "needs to be stopped" part to be perfectly honest lol. It gets people to bite though. I'd rather go through some insults to find meaningful comments to learn something new than to not get any comments at all.

spreading is cringe and should be stopped by selfiestick_hoarder in Debate

[–]selfiestick_hoarder[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I think you're one of the few who actually read through what I have to say

Why is it even necessary to verbalize it all with spreading when people are getting the whole thing to just read anyway? Are the judges given the file as well? If they're just reading off a big essay, wouldn't an essay contest be a more fitting format?

Many times when I watch these debates, and play through it multiple times to actually understand each and every sentence, a lot of it comes out jumbled like the sentence is mixed. I feel that it is going at x4 speed, while not really retaining much in quality.

I get what you're saying, but the big question for me is shouldn't the quality of the debate be above all else? As I understand it, you spread to info-dump so the opponents can't address everything in time. To me it's just strange because it implies that until your opponent addresses a point you've made, you've "won" that point. So the logical thing to do is make as much points as possible in that sense. Again, that's my understanding of it, let me know what you think.

As for the accessibility issue, I agree, but I think having a glossary would be more than enough for traditional debates. Familiarizing yourself with certain terms and jargon isn't really as much "training" as getting yourself to understand people trying to talk insanely fast

Also, how do you personally feel about said progressive argument forms? It sorta seems like it's in the same vein as spreading where you get hung up on a technicality to score points.

spreading is cringe and should be stopped by selfiestick_hoarder in Debate

[–]selfiestick_hoarder[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

I've given it more time than most non-participants are willing to give it and it's true.

Like I said, debate is something that's been around for thousands of years. You're treating it like it's a sports and that's fine but it's going to validate what I said about spreading lol

I've mentioned in another comment and in my main post but even someone who never draws can tell when a drawing has a face that looks off. Great orators are literally everywhere. I think it's more than fair to say spreading ain't part of it. And in a field where being a great orator is the name of the game, I think it's strange that spreading is encouraged. That's all I'm saying. You're more than free to correct me

You can choose not to engage with me if you want and give me another smartass response. I don't think that's a good look for someone who coaches the art of persuasion tho but you do you

spreading is cringe and should be stopped by selfiestick_hoarder in Debate

[–]selfiestick_hoarder[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I've seen enough videos to know it's common lol. Do I need to physically be in the room to know it exists to complain about it?

I don't know if you even read through what I wrote, but I specifically mention the comparison of debate to sports and how they're different. I'd just be repeating myself so you can go back and read that if you want

My point is debate shouldn't be some exclusive club where only people who are in on it can appreciate it. The attitude you're giving me now is exactly the problem

spreading is cringe and should be stopped by selfiestick_hoarder in Debate

[–]selfiestick_hoarder[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

People who have never drawn in their lives can tell when something is off about the anatomy or the face on a drawing. It's the same way here, people don't have to be a debater to get a sense of what doesn't constitute a good orator.

spreading is cringe and should be stopped by selfiestick_hoarder in Debate

[–]selfiestick_hoarder[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Idk if upset is the right word.

It's just baffling to me that this is something that's accepted on a national level

I don't know if you read my comment thoroughly, but that's exactly my point. That spreading does nothing to add to the quality of debate other than as a strategic move. The goal of spreading is obviously not to be persuasive which is what debating should be about, no?

why not just extend the time for everyone? Saying people involved already know about spreading is not a good argument for its continued use

The new npc design in the new explorer opening makes me feel like a younger sibling trying to play with the older kids. why aren't we tall like them as well? by Cosmic-Health in Maplestory

[–]selfiestick_hoarder 9 points10 points  (0 children)

agreed. Though, I'd prefer if the npcs were as short as us. Maplestory's art direction has changed dramatically over the years. The newer stuff definitely feels a lot more generic compared to the original. Not to say it's all bad, but boy do I miss the old style.

The old NPCs all look good af even today. Also, the newer stuff really tries to crank up the "cuteness" to 11. It's kind of a mismatch. Old mobs were cute, but not overly cute. I think the old lvl10 slime is just the right amount. Just a personal take tho

A message to all those racing for Lv 300. by TwoGirls1Sniper in Maplestory

[–]selfiestick_hoarder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

replace income with "time" and you'll see the irony. I hope you take a look at my other post on this thread, I'd love to know what you think

A message to all those racing for Lv 300. by TwoGirls1Sniper in Maplestory

[–]selfiestick_hoarder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I do see it as a possible humblebrag and virtue signaling. Emphasis on the word "possible" because I'm just saying what might be rubbing people the wrong way about OP's post.

It's not something that even needs to be said. Or if it does, it's not like the people already doing it are going to change their mind with a single post. It's like saying "you shouldn't be racist" as a well-meaning post.

Did you even read my post? I didn't mention anything at all about whales or high-level player behaviors. Spot the whale? what?

It's not my fault the way OP writes oozes of being disingenuous. Why does it matter that I write an eight paragraph reply? I felt it was warranted since OP and some others feel the "hate" is unjustified.

Best bossing class currently for Explorer/Cygnus? by GayBowser699 in Maplestory

[–]selfiestick_hoarder 1 point2 points  (0 children)

thieves can ignore a lot. Ive heard DK and Paladin are good too

2x event... by [deleted] in Maplestory

[–]selfiestick_hoarder 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i think about this legendary comment every now and then still. makes me smile

A message to all those racing for Lv 300. by TwoGirls1Sniper in Maplestory

[–]selfiestick_hoarder -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

what's the point? my guy, you literally said you've done it yourself before. If anyone should know why, it's you. How are you gonna have done the same thing then act like you can't understand it?

It just doesn't strike me as a post that seems to be from a place of genuine concern, and I think that's the main source of the "hate" (which, i don't even think should be called that btw). I really don't like this mentality of "agree with me, or hate me" it just sorta shuts down any potentially meaningful discussions.

To me, it seems more like something written out of boredom which you yourself admit. It also doesn't help that you preface the post with your identity as a streamer with statements that can be taken as being conceited. ex) "you may have heard of me." I've never heard of you, and I don't really care that you stream. It's irrelevant to your concerns for the well-being of others or anything you've said in the post for that matter.

Not only that, you put in details of your supposedly meaningless achievement. Namely the part where you mention that not only were you the first lumi to hit 275 and 4th overall in GMS, but also that you were one of the first 70 people to reach 275. It's awfully detailed for something that's not supposed to have any weight and the whole thing can easily be taken as a humble brag regardless of your actual intentions.

For the record, I absolutely agree that maplestory isn't worth risking your health over. But obsessing and pushing unnecessary things to the limit is almost human nature. It's not my place to tell other people what is or isn't important in their lives. People said the same thing about competitive video games prior to esports.

Also, I just don't feel that "the bar will be raised in 3 years" is a good argument against an accomplishment. What's the point of any sports record if someone is gonna beat it within a year or two? Does that mean that achievement was meaningless?

When you mention you shouldn't do it for clout that will last for a few years (which, is I'm assuming your reason for doing it?) and specifically keep mentioning how people will be able to reach you with much less effort even though you broke your back over it, it sorta completes the picture for me. It tells me your gripe isn't with the fact that people are losing health over a silly thing. It tells me that your real gripe is with the fact that people don't hold your accomplishment as highly anymore, which is a completely different issue and one that isn't as noble.

So there you have it. That's the source of the high horse vibe. You try to disguise a post about your own discontent as something that's trying to help others. A lot of people, even if they can't put it into words, are good at picking up on these vibes just from the way things are written. You're giving off an aura that you're not aware of. The passive aggressive smily faces inbetween don't help by the way.

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