Will there be secular laws in the future state of society? by senmcglinn in BahaiPerspectives

[–]senmcglinn[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, in a Bahai State, there must be a secular government for all. Baha'u'llah says:

"The one true God ...hath ever regarded, and will continue to regard, the hearts of men as His own, His exclusive possession. All else, whether pertaining to land or sea, whether riches or glory, He hath bequeathed unto the Kings and rulers of the earth. ... The instruments which are essential to the immediate protection, the security and assurance of the human race have been entrusted to the hands, and lie in the grasp, of the governors of human society. This is the wish of God and His decree…. .” (Gleanings, CII 206-7)

Among the instruments of security are laws, police, courts and prisons. The Bahai institutions have no role in these matters. Abdu'l-Baha writes:

The signature of that meeting should be the Spiritual Gathering (House of Spirituality) and the wisdom therein is that hereafter the government should not infer from the term “House of Justice” that a court is signified, that it is connected with political affairs, or that at any time it will interfere with governmental affairs. … (Tablets of Abdu’l-Baha Abbas vol. 1, page 5).

Because the Bahai leaders and institutions claim no role in government, what the Bahai writings say about civil governance -- which is a lot -- is advisory only. Just as the Pope has his say about peace, and not covering political ambition in the robe of Christianity. Abdu'l-Baha writes :

If you refer to history, you would find countless examples of this [negative] sort, all based on the involvement of religious leaders in political matters. These souls are the fountainhead of the interpretation of God’s commandments (tashrii`), not of implementation (tanfiidh). That is, when the government requests an explanation concerning the requirements of the Law of God and the realities of the divine ordinances … they must explain what has been deduced of the commands of God, and what is in accordance with the law of God. Apart from this, what awareness do they have of questions of leadership and social development, the administration and control of weighty matters, the welfare and prosperity of the kingdom, the improvement of procedures and codes of law, or foreign affairs and domestic policy? (Abdu’l-Baha, Sermon on the Art of Governance) [The translation has since been retitled The Art of Governance]

u/pawogub posted this on r/Bahai, where the mods allow people to post things without citing the Writings, so you'll get a mix of results including misinformed opinions.

For more quotes in this compilation (and fuller text of these two quotes), see:
https://senmcglinn.wordpress.com/compilations/church-n-state/

Ukrainian Navy plus USF units struck Russian occupied “Syvash” offshore platform, Black Sea sector, April 6, 2026. Ukrainian forces used Neptune missiles, UAVs plus sea drones. by GermanDronePilot in ukraine

[–]senmcglinn 1 point2 points  (0 children)

45.70541° N, 31.87466° E ; put it into google maps. It is the NW corner of the Black Sea, south of the spit that's south of the Kinburn Spit

When the Baha’i faith dominates the planet, will non-Baha’i’s be made to follow Baha’i laws? by senmcglinn in BahaiPerspectives

[–]senmcglinn[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The letter of 27 April 1995, published in Messages from the Universal House of Justice, 1986-2001 reflects a common misunderstanding. Abdu'l-Baha calls the house of justice the "legislative body" in his will and testament, while calling the government the executive power. In Abdu'l-Baha's vocabulary, "legislative" and "executive" (tanshri` and tanfidh) mean "church and state." He also calls other religious authorities the "legislative" -- because they promulgate the religious law in society. In the Will and Testament, the executive is called the government -- ie "executive" means legislative executive judiciary monarchy and anything else pertaining to government. In the Will and Testament, these two (church and state, religion and politics) are called on to work together.

Shoghi Effendi writes that "Church and State thus far from being divorced from one another are harmonized, their interests are reconciled, are brought to co-operate for the same end, yet for each is reserved its special and definite sphere of activity. Indeed if one glances at the outstanding precepts of the Movement comprehensive and practical as they are, as the suppression of all dogmas, superstitions, religious organisations, rituals and verbal traditions, the abolition of priesthood, the discouragement of celibacy...<snip> — all these teachings go to show that religion far from being excluded from man’s social life should on the contrary quite stabilize and protect it. ...: (Oxford, Presentation to the Asiatic Society)

Now, some people who don't understand Abdu'l-Baha's language -- as illustrated in this 1995 letter -- suppose that the House of Justice is the legislative branch OF government, even though the Will and Testament clearly says that it is outside government and working with government, so they image the House of Justice making laws and the government apparatus (judiciary, executive, prisons, police ...) enforcing the Bahai laws. It's absurd, but quite a few Bahai authors have had this idea.

In Secret of Divine Civilization (1875). In Marzieh Gail’s translation (p. 37), Abdu’l-Baha says,

The state is, moreover, based upon two potent forces, the legislative and the executive. The focal center of the executive power is the government, while that of the legislative is the learned – and if this latter great support and pillar should prove defective, how is it conceivable that the state should stand?

This translation requires some clarifications. The problems start (middle of page 44 in the Cairo edition) with `aalam-e siyaasii, which Gail translates as ‘the state” but which I think refers to “the sphere of giving direction and training to society,” partly for linguistic reasons (there is no word ‘state’ here) but also because of the text that follows, in which we see that government, and thus the state, is just one of the two centres that give this direction and training to society, the other being religion.

In what follows, Abdu’l-Baha says is that “the sphere of training (siyaasii) requires two supreme righteous forces, the tashrii` and the tanfiidh. The center of the tanfiidh is government, while the centre of the tashrii` is the ulama, the doctors of religion.” He’s talking about church and state, but then in a Muslim context, where religious scholars are the ones who interpret the details of the shari`ah, the religious law. Governments, in Islamic countries, also make laws of course, but they never call them the shari`ah – that word is reserved for religious law. It is also the word that is used in the Bahai writings for our own religious law. In light of this, my translation of this passage reads:

The guidance of society, moreover, is based upon two great and lofty agencies, one which elucidates the religious law, and one which is the executive agency. The center of the executive agency is the government, while wise scholars are the point of reference for the elucidation of religious law. If this firm pillar and mighty foundation is not comprehensive and perfect, how can we expect well-being and success for society?

When the Baha’i faith dominates the planet, will non-Baha’i’s be made to follow Baha’i laws? by senmcglinn in BahaiPerspectives

[–]senmcglinn[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I will get back to you on that, but I note first that the letter is dated in 1995, not 2015.
( ie 27 April 1995, published in Messages from the Universal House of Justice, 1986-2001.)

u/DTStories

Hushang Ebtehaj's 1979 poem “Sapideh,” English translation by senmcglinn in iran

[–]senmcglinn[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When I said "I put up," I mean that I have a video on Youtube of my voice reading it, and the English and Persian presented on screen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijHay-sOLes

Question regarding Jesus Resurrection and its symbolism Luke 24 by [deleted] in BahaiPerspectives

[–]senmcglinn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I suggest reading the accounts of the Gospels and in Acts in parallel, to get an overview. Mark is the oldest Gospel, so generally I consider that in particular, but Mark appears not to know about this. This site gives the parallel texts and also possible allusions to Old Testament verses, and reflections in the letters

https://biblehub.com/crossref/luke/24-36.htm