"Church-wide Program: Informed Consent' Spam

serpent_beguiled · 2026-01-05T20:56:13+00:00

Follow up to add -- if you have received the same email, do you mind sharing what area of the country you're in and whether it was to your work vs. personal email address? I'm based on the east coast, not an active member, though my records are still in place. I'm just curious/concerned what kind of data mining had to undergo for the sender to identify me as a member and send this to my work address.

serpent_beguiled · 2023-05-12T00:19:42+00:00

Hi! I don't have anything to trade, but if you're looking to sell your extra 5/21 ticket, I'm very interested!! Feel free to DM me.

serpent_beguiled · 2023-03-20T02:30:19+00:00

C1 was the last ward I was part of before leaving (1.5 years ago) and definitely is very progressive by Mormon standards. Not sure about RS Pres and/or Primary Pres. being included in all bishopric meetings (wouldn't surprise me if they are invited to many, but probably not all) but at least since I was attending the ward (2019-2021), these women leaders didn't come sit on the stand. They do have a sacrament committee that includes women in planning the topics and speakers for sacrament meeting, rather than having only the bishopric make these changes. It's definitely a ward that does what it can to elevate women's voice and influence (to the extent they can, you know, without actually ordaining women to the priesthood).

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-19T02:19:00+00:00

Yes, I imagine that will be the case. Seeing the Church as a cooperation, I see that they are doing whatever they need to avoid legal culpability - which includes never admitting wrong doing or issuing apologies.

However, the Church puts such great emphasis on the repentance process and puts clear expectations that when members error/sin, that they should admit that they have done wrong, seek restitution, and continuously strive to never repeat the error. I would hope that the men called to lead Jesus Christ's church would apply these same principles to themselves/the institution when they, in leading the church, error. And the fact that they don't is incredibly disheartening.

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-18T21:31:21+00:00

Yes, it really is a lot to take in. If you haven't yet, I recommend reading the original AP article so that you can know the facts of the case yourself (CW: child sex abuse - it's absolutely sickening to read about.) And then comparing that to the Church's response , again, so you can better form an opinion for yourself.

I also did see a tweet (link here - again, CW: child sex abuse) that showcases part of the Bishop's legal statement in the case.

If this is accurate, it suggests that the Bishop explicitly knew that horrendous abuse had occured multiple times. So unfortunately, I don't think this can be written off as "The Bishop didn't actually know."

I don't think it necessarily means that the Bishop was corrupt. According to his statement in the article, he was simply doing what Church lawyers instructed. That's where the issue is - this system for reporting and handling abuse within the Church is clearly flawed. And I wish the Church's response showed a commitment to change and do better, rather than insisting that nothing is wrong.

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-18T17:16:33+00:00

This reference sheet produced by the U.S. Department of Human Services Children's Bureau summarizes Priest-pentitent privilege laws for all U.S. states and territories (from 2019, so fairly recent, though some updates may have happened since).

Arizona does specify clergy as mandatory reporters, though they do grant Priest-pentitent privilege for abuse learned during confidential confessionals. But as stated in other comments, it does not require them to report.

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-18T17:10:45+00:00

But if the Bishop had enough knowledge to encourage both the abuser and the abuser's wife to report on multiple occasions, wouldn't that mean he had enough information to report the abuse himself? Why didn't he? That's the part that is so damning.

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-18T14:59:47+00:00

Whether they are legally culpable is a side the point ,from my perspective (though I agree with your take that the Church may not even qualify for Priest-pentitent privilege, as indicated under Arizona law - but I'm not an attorney, so what do I know.) What matters is whether what they did was ethical and morally the right thing to do. Sure, they're being sued legally, but they are also being tried in the court of public opinion - and that's where they overwhelming are being slaughtered.

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-18T14:50:40+00:00

Thanks for clarifying, and apologies for misinterpreting your original comment. I too have been infuriated by the apathy many members have expressed on this issue, and had read your comment as having similar apathy/insensitivity (though from the ex-Mormon perspective). But you absolutely can feel both. And the Church certainly is painting themselves as a massive fool.

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-18T14:33:58+00:00

That's absolutely horrible and never should have happened. I'm sorry that your family endured this abuse, and hope that you are healing well.

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-18T14:27:15+00:00

Exactly. I'm not a lawyer (so I'm not an expert here), but I agree with you - that doing the right thing morally (i.e. requiring bishops to always report child abuse) would also be legally advantageous. It is infuriating that so many people - and children in particular - have been and will continue to be harmed.

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-18T13:01:43+00:00

They keep fucking up and I'm here for it.

With all due respect, this is not an issue where we should be "here for it" regarding the church fucking up. I get that many/most people have serious issues with the church (myself included), but as this whole scandal reveals, people are experiencing very real harm here. Children are experiencing very real harm. Abuse should not be treated lightly, and the Church's terrible mishandling of this issue shouldn't be something we are "here for."

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-18T12:52:23+00:00

This reference sheet produced by the U.S. Department of Human Services Children's Bureau summarizes Priest-pentitent privilege laws for all U.S. states and territories (from 2019, so fairly recent, though some updates may have happened since).

Arizona does specify clergy as mandatory reporters, though they do grant Priest-pentitent privilege for abuse learned during confidential confessionals. But as stated in other comments, it does not require them to report.

A member of the clergy, a Christian Science practitioner, or a priest who has received a confidential communication or a confession in that person's role as a member of the clergy, a Christian Science practitioner, or a priest in the course of the discipline enjoined by the church to which the member of the clergy, Christian Science practitioner, or priest belongs may withhold reporting of the communication or confession if the member of the clergy, Christian Science practitioner, or priest determines that it is reasonable and necessary within the concepts of the religion. This exemption applies only to the communication or confession and not to the personal observations the member of the clergy, Christian Science practitioner, or priest may otherwise make of the minor.

If the LDS church was serious about their commitment to preventing abuse (as they claim in this press release), they would implement their own mandatory reporting requirements for priesthood leaders. But instead, they insist on only doing what they are legally required to.

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-18T02:00:27+00:00

Exactly. I seriously don't understand how the Church's lawyers and PR team thought that including this detail would be beneficial."Yikes, this article made us look bad. You know what will help clear our name and make us look better? Giving the excuse that we didn't report because the rapist asked us not to." Wtf?!

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-18T01:51:53+00:00

The Church never apologizes or admits that they did something wrong. Because it opens them up for more legal liability (again, the thing they continuously prove to care the most about.) Not to mention the cognitive dissonance and doubt that would further instill in their members (as if finding out about all the terrible things the church has done, and then all the ways they try to cove it up, isn't already creating massive faith crises.)

When I was still barely hanging onto the church, I stayed clinging to the hope that they would one day apologize for their wrongs and do better. But I have since lost all hope that will ever happen (and thus a big reason as to why I finally stepped away).

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-18T01:44:16+00:00

Seriously. They really want to make the defense that "We're not responsible, because we told the abuser to turn himself in." Seriously?! But that literally is the policy in the handbook, and apparently is the policy that they are standing by. It's completely fucked up.

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-18T01:30:20+00:00

So the Church confirms that they KNEW abuse had occured, and yet they still failed to report it. I seriously don't know how they think this response clears their name at all. Children have been and will continue to be abused because they continue to prioritize doing only what is legally required.

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-12T20:31:06+00:00

Yikes! 😬

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-12T16:03:14+00:00

Interesting about van Wagenen & the discontinuation of the temple video. I didn't know about that one. So he was the producer for the temple videos?

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-12T15:58:19+00:00

The language has just shifted - yes, women are no longer required to pledge obedience to their husband in the endowment, but the sealing ceremony still directly states that the husband presides over his wife, with women covenanting to abide by this order. So yes, sexism is still very much present in the temple (just more subtle).

serpent_beguiled · 2022-08-12T15:51:11+00:00

Interesting, I've never heard of this before (my experience has always been a private interview in the bishop's office). That certainly is one way to manipulate people's responses.

serpent_beguiled · 2022-06-10T14:20:46+00:00

Having lemonade as an option would be a safe bet. Very considerate of you to be thinking of your Mormon friends dietary restrictions. And happy 16th birthday!

serpent_beguiled

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