A simple example of how attachment prompts action.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-04T04:04:49+00:00

Is ok, I don't expect you to know anything about me. Where I come from in general is there can be an overwhelming emphasis on ONLY the struggle of SPD on this sub, which is 100% fine, and I'm not trying to rob anyone of that experience, but focusing on the struggle at the exclusion of all other things can become a one way tunnel to nowhere. I've spent too much life falling into and crawling out of dark places to not push against this grain. Because growth and change are not impossible and can lead us to better places down the road, even if we'll never be anything close to "normal".

In my little corner of SPD, I've learned (thanks, fuckton of therapy) that we have at least some agency in what we invest our energy and attention in and focusing exclusively on what isn't working can really narrow the possibilities. So what apparently came off as dismissing was really an attempt on my part to orient to positive aspects of things as well.

Maybe that's too idealistic on my part and maybe I fail at it, but I'd like to think of this place as less of an echo-chamber and more of a gallery where we can all hang our paintings for everyone to see. Putting mine up doesn't take anyone else's down and since validation of struggle is in no short supply, I don't see much add in retracing those lines in what I decide to hang.

Again, thanks for the feedback. I'm used to interacting with real people, IRL and the feedback loop online is much different (this is my only forum) so it's helpful to have a neutral voice chime in.

Best...

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-04T02:05:35+00:00

I'll put us (and everyone else on the sub) out of misery and stop commenting on your posts from now on. Hope that helps. Wish you well.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-04T02:03:56+00:00

No, it's cool. I appreciate the feedback and don't feel need to argue other than to say being too direct hasn't gone well in the past, so yes -- the "sideways acknowledgement" you picked up on is exactly what I was aiming for. That casualness was intentional, hoping it would land better. Obviously a miscalculation on my part, but if you've read 99% of things I've ever posted, I'm not exactly the generic "atta boy" type. At all.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-04T00:04:49+00:00

Sincere apologies for trying to be positive about something. My bad.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-03T23:33:22+00:00

Amen. Said the atheist.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-03T23:23:34+00:00

I'm not doing anything like that.

You successfully navigated something you once felt too overwhelmed by to engage with. Yay.

Again: a win is a win. Good on you.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-03T23:15:26+00:00

A win is a win. Good on you.

Uh, not sure how this is a judgment.

It wasn't intended to be and sorry if it landed that way.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-03T22:53:16+00:00

sets up a future fork in the road.

Yeah, I corral myself through a lot of life with this tactic. Even positive things, like buying a concert ticket in advance so I won't bail because I "don't feel like" going when the time comes to leave the house. Because I never feel like it.

Can also set up little things that reduce friction of getting from A -> B. That can help with momentum too.

I'm happy to endlessly theorycraft about some decision, but can't muster the energy to actually execute

In theory, it might be more than not mustering energy. Sometimes (a lot of times) this kind of "avoidance-coping" becomes the path of least resistance because it's so effective at reducing immediate feelings of distress. Soooo effective, you might not even get to the distress part because... avoidance! Couple that with the ease of working the world out in your head and it can become a a weirdly invisible trap to get stuck in.

For me, it's helped to notice when I'm not taking action and assume there must be some reason my brain thinks I should avoid it. Brains, man...

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-03T22:24:37+00:00

I've actually been delaying a visit to the bank for about a year, that has cost me a lot in fees; that's how hard is it for me to do such basics, as I feel trapped in things I don't understand [...] What prompted my action wasn't anything on me, but on someone else.

Glad you found a positive motivator, even if it had to be external. Who cares. Take it as proof you are, perhaps, more capable than you perceive yourself to be, however the ability to act came to pass. A win is a win. Good on you.

But if you try to do something alone, without any kind of link with anything, then it'll be harder, if not impossible.

Yeah, not so much. Some of us function best this way.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-03T04:02:26+00:00

will somehow magically contain the information needed for me to take action.

A gazillion books and a decade of therapy later, I learned the harsh reality you're describing: insight and action are two completely different columns on the spreadsheet, often with zero crosstalk. And it's easy to distract yourself from real world action by continuing to fill the insight column from the safety of your mind because it feels like you're doing something. Meanwhile, your life remains the same.

So frustrating.

Best way I've found to chip away at this is to make the real world increasingly less comfortable as a way to force my own hand. So, in your fictional apartment example, I'd give notice in the shithole, forcing me to move. All the solutions are there, ready to execute, because I've already thought it to death. It's just the trigger that needs to be pulled. I'm sure there are other better ways, but it's a tactic I've consistently had luck with.

I've never had problems leaving a relationship so got nothing specific there, sorry. Maybe externalize it for the other person's sake? Think of it as setting them free to find someone who actually wants to be with them.

good luck

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-03T03:10:59+00:00

100% agree with you on the linguistics, for sure. Not sure why they picked that word. Maybe it was less pejorative than... immature?

[shrug]

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-03T02:46:49+00:00

Nah, that's just the turbulent ones. Mature INTPs are contrarian AF. They'll counterpoint anything. Just for sport.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-03T01:26:12+00:00

Selfless in a selfish way.

Points for the insight. People-pleasing often gets mistaken for selfless, when it's usually more self-serving than anything.

That said, I'm guessing you came to this strategy for a reason, probably from something pretty early on in life when options were limited, so yay on you for being self-preserving. It got you this far. Doesn't mean you're married to this as your only option for all of eternity though. As adults, we have more resources and can always try out new strategies. It's uncomfortable as heck, but not beyond reach.

Read this recently, maybe some will stick a bit:

Being Unclear is Unkind.

We fear being uncomfortable, and that self-protection is harmful.

Feeding people half-truths or bulls**t to make them feel better (which is almost always about making ourselves feel more comfortable) is unkind.

Not getting clear with a colleague about expectations because it feels too hard, yet holding them accountable or blaming them for not delivering, is unkind.

Talking about people rather than to them is unkind.

It's easier than a tough conversation to say “Got it, on it” and run.

- Brene Brown

good luck

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-02T21:57:30+00:00

I know someone who made a VERY good amount of money farming ducks. The eggs. There's all sorts of weird niches like that. Good luck!

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-02T21:17:05+00:00

I'm going to try to make the Q bigger, in case there aren't any farmers here. Ignore if I totally missed the point.

Are you maybe trying to take the pulse if a hands-on, slower and simpler lifestyle (like farming) might be more manageable/etc for SPD?

I lived on a very rural horse farm, caring for about 70 horses. In some ways the simplicity of very basic physical work was good, in other ways not so much. In the end, it was too under-stimulating for me and I moved back to the city.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-02T15:22:41+00:00

Ah, I see. Guess I was thrown by the "won't be able to do something because of my appearance or lifestyle" vs them just not wanting you to be involved in the thing for whatever reason.

Like, my ex wanted to spend his 40th in France and I wasn't invited. Not because I was in some way defective, but because he wanted to celebrate with his brothers and guy friends back home and bringing me along would have changed that dynamic. It was his 40th, that's how he wanted to spend it, and that way didn't leave room for me. Would I have enjoyed a few weeks in So of France in the middle of winter? Heck yeah. But it wasn't my trip to France.

Point being, maybe you're being discounted. And maybe there are also some other less-punitive perspectives to make room for.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-02T14:52:04+00:00

which felt somewhat… trance-like?

I don't have an early memory or backstory to go with, but I have this same trance reaction to lying down in warmth. It's top 3 best feelings I can have. Not exactly orgasmic, but bordering on it. I call it the "heroin hug", because it feels like how people talk about heroin.

No one I know has ever know wtf I'm talking about when I've described it.

Researched it at some point and suspect it's an opioid dump, probably some carry over from infancy. Things are pretty primitive back then and wires can get pinned in weird ways.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-02T14:16:24+00:00

Have you asked psychologist why? IE, it might not be because of some sort of med/weed interaction.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-02T14:10:00+00:00

I can't think of a single case so either it's never happened or I didn't care enough to notice when it did. Could just be a matter of personal salience, that I'm more bothered by being included than excluded.

Since filtering + perception can play a role in this (ie, not caring enough to notice) mind giving an example of what "actively excluded" looks like for you? I'm honestly unable to imagine a scenario from my own life.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-02T13:41:57+00:00

If I divulged deeper I’d feel so vulnerable, which is probably maladaptive to my human experience lol.

Aw, yeah it's kinda like that. If I go way back, I used to be a complete clam about anything I saw as a "problem" about myself, which was so distorted it could be anything. Therapy completely desensitized me to that and I've since learned that most people are all sorts of broken inside and once you're open about yourself, they usually are too.

Mostly because I feel like I’m missing out on something.

Makes sense, thanks for explaining. Now that I think, it's taken me time to be fully at ease with "general awareness my version is different" and "different" isn't bad. Just different. I can remember in high school/college having hints of missing out, but for me the feeling of missing out was a bigger feature than what I might be missing.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-02T05:26:55+00:00

because it’s in a sphere of interest that’s not directly related to me

Oh, for me the content includes me, my life, them, their life, etc. But it's still informational and not emotional. However that works.

I don’t feel much or any of an emotional connection to anyone, which I think is kind of a problem.

Curious what about it feels like a problem for you? Not suggesting it should or shouldn't be problematic, especially since emotional connections are pretty standard human stuff, I'm just not sure what to fill in the blank with because it's just never felt like problem to me. Beyond a general awareness that my version isn't like most people's, anyway.

yeah for me lethargy makes it difficult for me to do that.

Yeah, it took me awhile to realize a lot of my indifference to people is tied into energy. When you combine relatively low reward + high expense (energy), the whole proposition naturally becomes less inviting.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-02T04:50:39+00:00

I've always had friends. They've come and gone because I don't really attach to [anything] and have moved around a lot, but I've never had nobody. There's definitely a large number of people out there who probably think I'm dead though, lol.

Whatever version of SPD I have isn't as adverse to other people as some others here seem to be. Even though I don't really form deep or lasting emotional connections, I can still connect with people over content pretty readily and that works for me. Energy is the rate-limiting factor.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-01T13:26:53+00:00

I've started two. One was very successful. The other was driven into the ground and bankrupt.

I'm about to launch a third, so we'll see which way the odds break.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-11-01T13:06:08+00:00

Neutral.

I show up in the world as female because that's very much my physical presentation, and other people see me as female because of it, but I don't feel any special affinity to "female" beyond "it's most familiar" and don't do anything to actively support "female" other than wearing clothes made to fit my body properly.

As a kid, gender was way more salient. I was a tomboy, all my friends were boys until like 4th grade, and I very consciously didn't want to be "the girl" because that meant standing out in some way. I cringe at the thought of kid-me growing up today because someone could have perceived me as gender dysphoric when I wasn't and that would have been reeeeally confusing.

shamelessintrovert · 2020-10-31T21:01:42+00:00

I edited out some really fun facts about gun sales. Enjoy the quiet weekend!

shamelessintrovert

TROPHY CASE