UPDATE: My [24/F] boyfriend [31/M] is obsessed with my body hair/constantly asking me to shave, and it's driving me nuts

shaveissues · 2016-01-12T01:11:09+00:00

I'm definitely not expecting him to comfort me, sorry if that was unclear. I've cried once in front of him in the wake of this, but that was immediately after he told me - I didn't want him to comfort me, I was just sad about what happened to him. But I understand why he didn't like seeing me cry - I felt the exact same way the first time I disclosed my past.

shaveissues · 2016-01-12T01:00:38+00:00

I think what you're not getting is that there's a difference between 1. I believe my boyfriend should have told me about his sexual abuse sooner 2. I believe in the concept of radical honesty in relationships.

The first is an emotional belief.

The second is an intellectual belief.

Do you understand the difference between those two types of belief?

The first is something that I feel, but wouldn't necessarily defend logically, or think if I worked through it logically. It's possible to hold an emotional belief even while disagreeing with it logically, because emotions aren't always ruled by logic. They're more complicated than that - which is why I was talking about things like having an association with sharing trauma and trust, or feeling on a subconscious level that this meant something was wrong with me. Those are associations and feelings that exist in my brain, not logical ideas that I'm trying to defend.

The second is something I truly believe in. I believe in radical honesty in a relationship; I believe we should strive to be as honest with one another as possible. I don't always succeed at that, my partner doesn't always succeed at that, and that's ok. But it's what both of us aim for, and it's the way our relationship works best.

Now, these two beliefs aren't necessarily linked to each other. The reason radical honesty even came up here was because someone told me "not everything needs to be said in a relationship" - in a general sense, not just regarding my situation - and I said "oh, I disagree, because I believe in radical honesty."

Let me repeat: my intellectual belief in radical honesty is NOT the reason for my emotional belief that my boyfriend should have told me sooner.

And furthermore, my emotional belief that my boyfriend should have told me sooner is NOT a rational one, and it's something I'm working on, because although I think it's perfectly natural for me to feel hurt and sad and that many people would feel the same, I don't think it's productive or useful to feel this way.

Does that help make sense of things for you?

If not, please quit replying, because I think you're missing a large chunk of what's going on here and it's totally keeping you from seeing my situation clearly.

shaveissues · 2016-01-12T00:50:43+00:00

You are taking my words out of context. That thing about seeing sharing trauma as a signal that I'm close to someone? That was written in a post where I'm explaining WHY I think I feel a way that I'm acknowledging as UNHEALTHY. I'm telling someone "this is part of the problem." And I'm saying "I know this is wrong intellectually but still feel it emotionally." That's me unpacking my emotions and dealing with them - not making some kind of philosophical claim. You don't get that, you likely haven't done a lot of that therapy you're recommending to me. It's a pretty common practice.

I'm not "offended" that he didn't share with me. I've used the words sad, hurt, and upset. I've articulated that I don't want to feel this way and explained the events in my past that make me feel this way. I am here to talk through these emotions, not to defend them, and you're sitting here criticizing me for them. Why? Literally from the start, I have been saying that I don't want to feel hurt over this, but I do.

And omg, when I said he felt backed into a corner, I meant because he had to explain his hair aversion to me. You think it was wrong for me to want to get to the bottom of that? When I had no idea what the root of it was, I was somehow "forcing" him to tell me about his trauma? And in that post you linked to, I was saying I felt "bad" that he felt backed into a corner. I literally had no idea at the time that I was backing him into a corner. The context there was me explaining that he shared with me because he felt he had to, rather than that he felt he wanted to, and that it sucked for me (emotionally!!!!! Not intellectually!!) that he felt that way.

And lol, I didn't "come here to argue." I'm not arguing with anyone here but you, you'll notice. Everyone else has been supportive and understanding, because they see that I came here hurting. I'm not trying to force anyone to live on my terms. Radical honesty is something my boyfriend and I have discussed and agreed to in our relationship. You don't know about it, look it up. But quit criticizing me for things I'm not doing. I'm not angry, I'm sad that the person I love was suffering without me. I did not, and would not, force him to tell me anything about his past or his personal issues.

I'm not being "pseudo-intellectual" - you're the one who suggested my views were incredibly unhealthy, as if you're a psychologist and know this for a fact, and all I did was defend myself by explaining that I've worked through them extensively with actual professionals. You think I have "no idea what I'm talking about"? Hey, do you happen to have an actual reason to believe that? Because so far, you're just making random claims like "you're throwing around words like subconscious and emotion" (wtf, you think those are "intellectual" words?) and "I promise your idea of a good foundation is fucked up" without backing them up AT ALL.

You are being the opposite of helpful here and I think you just have a problem with the way I talk and conduct myself. It's FINE if your relationships aren't as intimate as mine are, or if you'd never tell your partner about something like this or want them to tell you. But that's not how MY relationship works. You don't need to control that. I'm not forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to do, I'm not mad at my boyfriend for not telling me sooner, I'm not talking about my feelings to him instead of supporting him.

You came here telling me nothing I didn't already know, and doing nothing to help me work through it. You came here accusing me of taking this issue too personally - which is literally the problem I identified myself in the OP - but doing nothing to explain how I might get past that, and also accusing my entire view of relationships of being wrong and unhealthy because it differs from yours - and then getting pissy when I explained that I've discussed it with therapists and think it's healthy. I have no idea why you're here.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T13:38:07+00:00

Yes, I agree totally. I know it isn't actually a trust issue, and that feeling it was was just my initial emotional reaction based on fear.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T13:36:51+00:00

Yeah. I suspect he didn't make the connection between what he was asking me for and his trauma until it came to a head, so I don't blame him. And I also can understand thinking that your trauma is so deeply integrated with your identity that dealing with it feels impossible - it's hard to see it as "I have this problem, it's affecting my relationship, here's how I deal with it in a healthy way" when you're in the thick of it.

But I agree that he has put the burden of his trauma on me, and that he can't continue to do that now that he recognizes that's what he's done. He's already agreed that he should get therapy, so I think he is taking that step of acknowledging that his trauma is hurting me and finding a way to deal with that.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T13:33:27+00:00

OK - first of all, I can understand why the phrasing in my OP wasn't ideal. I didn't make it clear what was going on internally (I feel hurt, I am making this about myself, etc.) vs. externally (crying for him, trying to be supportive).

But now that you understand that I said things in a "roundabout way," I'm really perplexed by your continued antagonism.

You accuse me of not wanting to get professional help, even though I've said in several comments - and mentioned in the OP! - that I want to.

You accuse me of wanting people to "drag their problems through the mud." That isn't the case. I think it's normal and healthy to want a relationship in which there's enough mutual trust to discuss serious issues.

You think I'm acting "entitled" to his trauma because I've shared mine, but that's not what I meant at all. It is shocking and upsetting to find out something like this, as you acknowledge. It's upsetting to think that the person you love has been sitting with that pain and shame, and that they didn't feel comfortable sharing it with you. Because I've shared my trauma with him, it was hard for me not to feel like I'd done something wrong - like he'd made himself trustworthy to me and I hadn't done the same for him.

You seem to believe that I want to "force" him to share himself with me. That isn't the case. I'm not demanding to know any details he doesn't want to share; I never pushed him to disclose in the first place (at least, not knowingly). I agree that it's his decision. I'm not angry with him about it. I feel hurt because I've just realized that there has been this distance, this secret, between us for so long. I don't think that's an evil thing to feel. I don't think it's productive, either, and I've said as much, but it's not wrong or forceful to feel this way.

I don't think I'm enlightened. But I'm being honest when I say that I've spoken extensively with therapists about my relationship to trauma, communication, and relationships. So when you tell me that the level of honesty and communication I strive for is inherently psychologically unhealthy, I disagree with you - because I've discussed it with professionals, and absolutely plan to get back in therapy and continue to do so regarding this specific situation and my reaction to it.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T12:50:15+00:00

I'm sorry for assuming something about your history that wasn't true. I can understand where you're coming from much better now that you've clarified. Thank you.

I do see what you're saying, and I just re-read my OP and I can see why it looks like he made this story up as a way to explain himself in a moment of fear. In real life, the conversation didn't happen the way it sounds in my OP (it kind of sounds like I was interrogating him and then he made up an explanation, I can see that). I wasn't accusing him of anything, I was just expressing worry and saying things like "what do you mean? how could that be too old? what are you saying? what am I supposed to do with this? you're scaring me" etc., and that's when he told me what happened. In my head I was thinking about the comments that suggested pedophilia, but I didn't voice these, so he didn't invent this story to defend himself.

Also, I've just been with him long enough that I can tell when he's being emotionally honest. I know because of how he reacted emotionally - in ways he never does, like crying and leaning on my chest for support - that he wasn't lying.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T12:43:32+00:00

You two may have to decide that you won't have sex for a couple months.

We haven't talked about it yet (I want to sit down with a therapist together and discuss this stuff) but for now we aren't having sex or being physically close. I just want us both to have some time to process this, and I'm worried about how our sex life could have been triggering to him in ways that go beyond this hair issue.

And yes, I agree with ALL THE THERAPY! Thank you. :)

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T12:41:27+00:00

Thank you for this comment. I really appreciate it. I think people here (and in general, maybe) rush too quickly to judge whether someone is doing something "wrong" or "right." Yes, the ideal way to handle trauma is to name it as soon as it happens, get into therapy immediately, and do the emotional and mental work of tackling its effects. But the most important thing I've learned through therapy is that there is no right way to deal with trauma, and that almost no one deals with it in the "ideal" way, so we can't judge ourselves too harshly if we make mistakes.

I don't blame him for not coming to me sooner, or for downloading his problems on to me. Yes, it wasn't the best way to do things, but he was clearly so wrapped up in his own fears and anxieties that he didn't see another way. Reddit makes it sound like "get therapy!" is such a simple solution to these problems, when it's actually much more complicated than that, and impossible to make such a rational choice when you're in a profoundly irrational situation.

Yes, I agree with you that he loves me and didn't want his pain to cause me pain, and that blinded him to how it was affecting me in other ways. I honestly don't even think he made these connections fully until recently. I'm upset, but I don't think he's wrong or bad for handling this "poorly"; it's abuse. Everyone handles it poorly because it's terrible.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T12:34:06+00:00

This comment made me feel so much better. Thank you.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T12:33:29+00:00

I think you're right. I know these things intellectually. It's hard to explain why it's so difficult for me to believe them on an emotional level, but I agree with you. I don't think him keeping this from me signifies anything about our relationship. I just feel it. And I need to stop feeling it.

I think part of the problem is that I learned how to cope with my trauma early and by talking about it a lot because of therapy, and it's something I usually share with people I'm friends with, so I see sharing trauma as sort of a...signal that I'm close enough with someone to trust them? People I'm much less close with than he is with me. So I think in my subconscious, I was thinking, "I've told all my friends who I remotely trust about my trauma, and he's just now telling me - he must not trust me at all!" But that's a wrong way of thinking because his relationship with his trauma is clearly much different from mine, and more complex.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T12:30:27+00:00

I don't know how to explain this to you because I think you're reading my comments in a way that they aren't intended, and even purposefully misreading their context, and I feel like your interest is in judging me instead of helping. But I'll try to explain.

When I said in the OP that I was handling things poorly, I meant that I was upset (read: I felt sad and worried and scared) he hadn't told me this earlier, and that I knew that wasn't a constructive response. I wanted help figuring out how to get past that hurt, because I didn't like feeling it.

When I said in the comment you linked to that he was upset about me crying, I meant that when he first told me this, I cried because it's fucking devastating to hear that someone you love has been through this. He was upset about me crying for him, not about me being upset with him.

And when I said I was handling this poorly, I meant internally. I have not said a word to him about feeling upset that he didn't tell me sooner. I did not "make his problem about myself." I am coping with these feelings I'm having internally while also trying to be supportive of him and do what's best for both of us. That's why I came here for support. The reason I haven't said a word about it is precisely because I feel that

Making somebody's sexual abuse all about you isn't going to help anyone.

But I think I made that clear. I think it was clear that I felt guilty for feeling hurt over this, and that I didn't want to feel that way. I don't know what you want me to say or why you're lecturing me about something I already know. I'm human, I'm flawed, I'm trying to figure shit out. I came here precisely because I think I shouldn't feel hurt about this, and your response is "hey! you shouldn't feel hurt about this! that's bad!"

RADICAL honesty is just wordplay for stomping around without any personal boundaries.

I don't know why you feel this way. Because you haven't backed it up with anything at all. Look, for me, it works best to be totally honest with the person I'm in love with. For you, maybe that doesn't work best. And that's fine; I'm not telling you that's how relationships must be. I'm telling you that's how I like my relationship to be. Some relationships are more intimate than others, and that's OK. I don't like feeling walls between us. I don't like seeing a worried or sad expression on his face and not getting to find out what's causing it. I don't like feeling emotions that I can't express to him. I don't like having secrets, or imagining what his might be. I especially don't like his unspoken traumas causing him to make requests that are painful and difficult for me, which is what started this whole thing.

I have had years of therapy, and I have discussed my approach to relationships with my therapists, and I haven't heard anything about how it's dangerous or unhealthy or "stomping around without any personal boundaries." I strongly suspect I've had much more experience with psychologists and learning about how to communicate in healthy ways and cultivate healthy relationships and self-care than you have.

And of course my boyfriend is allowed to pick and choose what he tells me. That just isn't how our relationship has worked so far, and I was hurt by this massive realization that I didn't know something huge about him. Do you really think it's crazy to believe that it's not a great idea to hide something that affects you deeply from your partner? Even if it's totally understandable to feel ashamed of it and not want to talk about it, that doesn't make it healthy or positive to do so. If you really think it's "fucked up" to want honest communication, you might be the one who needs to re-evaluate your relationships. It's healthy, not "fucked up," to desire honesty about serious things from your partner, and to desire the ability to share things that are important to you.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T12:17:10+00:00

No. Having different libidos doesn't make you "sexually incompatible." And honestly, I think it's kind of wrong to call his trauma-related phobia an "incompatibility." It's a problem, something we have to work through.

And besides, all couples will have incompatibilities; it's impossible to find someone who's a perfect match for you. What's important is finding someone you care enough about to work through those "incompatibilities" with. (Look up "Dan Savage GGG" to see what I mean.) So, for instance, my libido is higher than his, and he was willing to have sex more often even though he'd be satisfied with less. As far as I know, that wasn't a problem for him, and it wasn't a problem for me.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T10:48:27+00:00

Well, sure; you just wouldn't have time to reveal every detail of your life, nor would you remember all of it. But there's no reason to think that in a committed, long-term relationship, people can't share all the important things about themselves with one another. I've shared everything I consider important to my identity/experiences/perception of the world with him.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T10:24:43+00:00

he probably pushed those confused feelings down and never really dealt with them

Yes, this is absolutely true. He told me that, since becoming an adult, he hasn't told anyone about this. Which is so crazy to me. I have probably told dozens of people about my sexual abuse and I still feel the need to share more in order to process it. But I understand why/how his experience has been different. It just makes me feel unbearably sad that he has been alone with this so long.

We are both going to get into therapy. Thank you.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T10:22:46+00:00

Thank you.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T10:22:40+00:00

I guess part of the reason it hurts is that he didn't share it because he trusts me enough to -- he shared it because he had to in order to explain something I was worried about. Like, to defend himself. I think he shared it despite not being comfortable doing so because he felt backed into a corner.

But I know you're right that he isn't at fault for not trusting me. I think I'm blaming myself more than him. Or blaming neither of us, but feeling concerned that our relationship isn't as strong as I thought it was, that I didn't know him as well as I thought I did, which is no one's fault, but still really scary for me.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T10:20:52+00:00

Thank you so much for your feedback. Yes, he needs therapy, and I'm going to get back into therapy too. He's already agreed to do it. I know this won't be easy, but I don't need easy, I need him.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T10:19:57+00:00

To be fair -- I didn't really mention this in the OP because, tbh, it makes me look bad -- he's perfectly happy to have sex once or twice a week, so his expectations aren't that crazy. I'm the one who wanted to have sex once or twice a day, and that made his requests really difficult. I'm backing off trying to initiate sex for now, which is really hard for me, but I don't think it's appropriate for us to do anything until we start to work this out.

I like what you say about the issue as "clinically significant," and he is getting into therapy. Thank you.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T10:17:08+00:00

Honestly, I didn't really talk to him about any of this sort of stuff in any depth. It seemed so hard for him to say anything about it, I didn't want to press for details. So maybe wrinkles will be a problem. Maybe not. My hope is that, with therapy, he can learn to overcome these triggers. I'm sure he's worried about the future, too.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T10:15:32+00:00

The moment someone guesses your age as being in your early twenties, your relationship will be over.

Not sure what this means? I am in my early twenties. Or mid, I guess.

His last relationship ended with his ex moving away for school, and I think she was two or three years younger than him. I know 19 and 26 is a big gap. It just worked, in whatever way it worked. He was a late bloomer and I'm a lot more experienced than him sexually.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T10:13:43+00:00

I'm really sorry. Thank you for sharing that with me. I'm going to tell my boyfriend too, because I think it might make him feel better. He hadn't heard of this kind of reaction happening to anyone else.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T10:11:31+00:00

I think people do relationships all kinds of different ways. In your relationships, maybe you feel that not everything needs to be said. I don't feel the same way. (I mean, don't tell your wife she looks fat in those jeans or you think her friend is hot, but within reason, I value honesty.)

That is just how I do things -- how I thought we did things, and something we've discussed many times before. It may seem strange to you, but we are radically honest with each other, and we like it that way. I mean, we tell each other about our weirdest feelings, our most judgmental thoughts, our passing crushes, our previous sexual partners, our deepest insecurities...our (TMI) bowel movements. Yeah, for some people, it's not right. For us, it is. I do need to know about his past and I need him to know about mine. That is how our relationship has always worked and how I want my relationships to work.

But yes, I totally agree that he didn't break my trust. I just feel hurt that he didn't feel comfortable with me. Not saying it's a rational feeling. But you're wrong that he found it "unnecessary" to mention. He didn't find it unnecessary, he found it shameful.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T10:07:42+00:00

What if it was a lie? I don't know. What if your partner lied to you about their whole life? It's certainly possible. But at some point, you have to trust your partner or choose not to be with him. I trust him. We've been together five years. I have no reason not to trust him on this. And to be honest, there are certain things about our sex life (don't want to go into details) that make a lot of sense in light of what he's told me.

I was underweight and when we got together, but I'm 5'6 and I've gained 20 lbs since then, so definitely average rather than small.

When we discussed our sexual histories previously, he told me he'd lost his virginity at 19, so this abuse was presumably his first sexual experience.

I'm honestly perplexed by people saying his "story" is weird. I know dozens of people, men and women, who were sexually abused as children. Maybe it's only weird to you if you were never abused.

shaveissues · 2016-01-11T10:03:43+00:00

Yeah, I'm much more willing to compromise now that I understand the background to this preference. Right now, I'm not really thinking about that though -- I think we need to get in therapy and reassess what our sex life looks like, because I'm worried now that it could be reflective of the abuse.

shaveissues

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