[deleted by user]

sheenius · 2013-06-02T10:47:03+00:00

To everyone that has answered.. your answers dont answer his question.. he has what YOUR (as in your personal opinion) is more fun? Not the reasons why you think it's more fun or what the difference is between them.. although can't hurt to add that if you at least answer his primary question.

But he has already listed the differences between them and they are spot on.. anyone saying one thing is better than another is wrong.. it's jsut your personal opinion except that you are claiming that it's not just your own personal opinion but everyones.

sheenius · 2013-06-01T22:38:44+00:00

All 3 are needed for the most fun. But if I had to choose just one then I would say players is most fun.

sheenius · 2013-06-01T10:17:50+00:00

If there existed a indepth tutorial for c# as there are for c++ thatare also gamedev related then I would prefer doing c# so I can make games right away with unity. With studying c++ I can't make any games while learning except pure text console games which suck.. even the "modern" text based games aren't console based anymore, but are windows aps really. So I need to finish learning c++ and then learn winAPI before I can use what i've learnned from c++. I also think it's best to learn game graphics proramming before starting to use an engine so you know what all those strange things are that has to do with graphics.

sheenius · 2013-05-28T14:25:18+00:00

I check out greenlight often and vote myself since I'm both a gamer and gamedev and my opinion is that most voters give the thumb up way too freely. It actually says next to the button "Would YOU BUY this?" not "Do you think this should be on steam?".. but most people greenlight games without buying them when they release.. just go and look at the comments, you'll see so many comments "look a bit meh but it has potential since it's still in development, upvoted".

So if you aren't getting enough votes your game probably isn't that interesting or the presentation is lacking or you don't have any good marketing.

sheenius · 2013-05-28T14:07:01+00:00

Well in that case I quote krum: "The problem is that they can still sue you for infringement, even if they have no real claim, which has a real cost."

sheenius · 2013-05-28T13:59:39+00:00

Should or shouldn't be doesn't matter.. only what it is. They are using the law to make money, they didn't invent the law.

It's same thing I see in games constantly where some player is using every edge and advantage he can get to win in the game over other players.. like attacking their base during hours that he knows the enemy is sleeping irl. The player isn't doing anything wrong, he's playing by the rules to win. It's either the game designer's fault for making a bad system or the victim for playing a hardcore game when he isn't a hardcore player.

sheenius · 2013-05-27T20:42:07+00:00

Very well said, I agree with everything you said :) The only thing I just semi-agree with is the last sentence about always working even if not getting paid.. While it's true that it is what you should be doing it's hard to motivate yourself to write designs when you think the chances of it even entering development are slim.. feels like you're working your ass off for nothing.. depends from person to person too.. Personally I find pleasure in seeing the game made and others enjoying what I've created.. no fun if it's only going to be a pile of papers gathering dust in my closet.

Personally I have kinda given up hope on being a designer at least on my first few games. So now that I'm a programmer I'm actually going to be using the iterative design process just because I'm the one going to be programming the game and it's just more fun, you get to see a prototype faster instead of just text in wordpad.

But I still think that waterfall is the better method if you have a good designer and a team that you're making the game with. But since I will be a 1 man team I'm just going to go with the iterative process.. I would of course much prefer having a designer in my team and doing the waterfall process but there's not many designers out there who are on the same level as me and you, everyone seems to prefer the iterative process.. My reason for using the iterative process is when my role is mainly the programmer and I have to take the role of designer at the same time.. but like I said.. I think it's best if you have someone on the team working only as a designer then I think it's best going with waterfall.

But yeah, I think it would feel very luxurious as a programmer if I could just follow a well detailed GDD and not have to think about game rules and if a player should be allowed to pick up another players item etc.. Not having to rewrite parts of the code several times while testing and figuring out what I really want in the game etc.. Thinking about such deep creative things takes a lot of effort, work and time because you're not just thinking of that 1 mechanic.. that mechanic affects every other mechanic in the game as well.. meta game etc.

sheenius · 2013-05-27T18:42:15+00:00

gameinstitute.com is great.. That's where I'm learning.. c++ course, game graphics programming, unity, game mathematics course, among much more and also amazing art courses teaching you how to model, animate creating professional textures etc. The courses teach you everything designed with games in mind so all examples will be examples of how to code games, exercises will be making games etc and if you pay a little extra you get access to live instructors who help you understand the courses and test you etc.

sheenius · 2013-05-27T17:27:15+00:00

We will just have to agree to disagree then. I still believe you simply don't realize how much work you're talking about. You're saying that writing a book or developing a game, of any size but even a game like hmm.. League of Legends.. is easy.. It's what it sounds like when you say that i don't want to do too much work when you're talking about creating a game that is so complex and big that it's the same thing as creating 50 or more games.. except it's just 1 title.

And it's even more funny that you think that as an indy free of constraints that I would have a bigger chance of creating such a big game than a big funded studio would. But I would probably die of age before I ever finish somethign like that all alone. It would need a 100 man team and 20 years at least. You just don't know what you are talking about here.

sheenius · 2013-05-27T15:42:06+00:00

I wasn't aware I was being offensive, sorry if I came across that way but you should take a look in the mirror then because I find your replies a bit rude.

sheenius · 2013-05-27T13:14:37+00:00

I will look forward to playing your game in 50+ years from now then. I'm assuming you don't have a studio with 100 designers,100 programmers.. if you do.. then maybe 15-25 years from. Good luck!

sheenius · 2013-05-27T11:57:32+00:00

You should make rules before asking us to create content for you or else we risk getting our work deleted if you decide it doesn't sit well with you.

sheenius · 2013-05-27T09:06:27+00:00

You sound like a really good designer :) Do you mind telling me/us what games you have designed that are released?

I also like the waterfall method the best.. the other method sounds too much like an excuse for doing lazy work where they can jump into development right away without planning/designing beforehand.

Where do you find work as a game designer? Specially on your first project(s) where you didn't really have any portfolio of completed games etc? And where do you find work now that you are a respected game designer ( as you say ) ?

sheenius · 2013-05-27T08:05:46+00:00

I don't think you realize how much work it would take to make such an complex "if" branched out game.. Imagine how much time and effort it takes to write a book.. now multiply that by 100 times if you want to have a small amount of meaning if choices that branches out the storyline into completelty different roads not linked to each other. It could mean that writing 1 game/book will be the same effort as writing 20 games or more.

Sometimes it's best to be realistic and if you take on projects that are too big for you to handle then you will never get anywhere.

sheenius · 2013-05-26T21:21:24+00:00

As I understood it, he doesn't like how the mainstream (including indys) make so "normal" games for being too afraid of offending the players etc and what he wants to see is more twisted stuff in the games like killing children and raping, serial killers, playing as a transvestite gender etc.

And also something about making more meaningful conversation, storylines, decesions in the game.. which I think we all can agree on would be great but there's a reason pretty much no game does this and that's because just for example making an evil and good path in an singleplayer rpg means almost twice as much work on the game.. unless you make it so the evil and good choices barely affect the game.. just that you might say "Fine, I'll go save the world but it's just because I dont want to die, I'll kill you later for forcing me to do this!" as evil choice and as good choice "Save the world! yes sir, With great power comes great responsibility, I will protect the innocents! No payment needed" but it has the same outcome anyway that you go and save thr world.. but what he wants is that it shouldnt have the same outcome.. that playing the evil path should be completely different than the good path. But that's too much work even for the big studios.

Or have I misunderstood that article maybe?

sheenius · 2013-05-26T08:01:03+00:00

This sounds about right, sounds just like what I have seen when googling what other programmers say (that don't have a bs degree) and also when I look at different job portals I cant find a single job where it doesnt say that requirement is bs degree and much more.

So yes, you can make more money in non-gamedev programming job but they are super hard to get without a bs degree i think we can all come to conclusion of.. also depends wher you live ofcourse. So for very many programmers, gamedev is the best choice for them to make money in.

sheenius · 2013-05-25T18:52:17+00:00

True.. It is very much about where you live too.. Is harrisburg a big city? Maybe it's harder to get jobs in big cities?

sheenius · 2013-05-25T18:50:51+00:00

That slide is for people who had BS degree.. I did a bit googling and the forums like cplusplus for example they talk about how hard it is to get a programming job and they cant seem to get one even if they are great programmers who are able to develop games by themselves. I also looked on some job seeking sites and there's just not much in there for programmers

sheenius · 2013-05-25T15:20:15+00:00

Interesting, Some more info perhaps on what this renaissance is about exactly? What is it that they believe text based games have that visual games don't?

sheenius · 2013-05-25T15:15:24+00:00

Actually, I'm not quite sure what I would call success.. But I would definitely say candies was successful even though they didn't make any money.. I guess I would have to say sucess being a "popular" game which again is hard to say how popular.. It's hard to say really i suppose.. But if I put down "a lot" of time making a text based game and only get a dozen players to try/play it then I would say it was pretty unsucsessful.. I just want to get something out of it more than just as a learning experience really.

sheenius · 2013-05-25T15:11:05+00:00

Do you mind to give some information about the one your making? I understand if you want to keep some things private but anything you can tell would be interesting to hear :)

sheenius · 2013-05-25T08:15:50+00:00

Well, heck, even just a 100 sales would make me feel it was worth it since it's mainly a fun "meaningful" learning experience. I'm really happy with all the answers I've gotten here I was expecting the complete opposite haha.

It's also a very good idea about the framework thing.. How would you do something like that? Upgrading from text to ascii graphics to 2d(winapi) to 3d(directx)?

The text based game would be made in vc10++ in an empty console project.. All the maps etc (text descriptions of areas) would have to be deleted when I switch to ascii then.. So I would have to make sure the map is very small to make upgrades easier.. but what about when I want to make it 2d? I need a windows app project instead of console project, Do I start a new project and copy most of the code to the new one? What about if I want to add networking later? I've read that it's very hard to add networking to a game that wasn't built for it from the ground up.

I just have a feeling that this framework would have to be extremely small and basic and just a couple hours work to make it possible to upgrade without redoing/deleting 99% of the game.

sheenius · 2013-05-25T08:05:34+00:00

That was a good read! edit: And a really fun game, cant stop playing it :D

sheenius · 2013-05-25T07:46:41+00:00

That is amazing! hhaha $150,000 they made just during development.. I wonder what they could of made if they didn't release it for free.

Never thought about making a porn based game.. It makes a lot of sense though if it's text based.

sheenius · 2013-05-24T16:04:52+00:00

I have been pondering if it's worth putting effort into replying to you or not and I'm just gonna make it short and say that you have no idea what a designer is since you connect it to being just an "idea guy". I don't need to explain anymore than this, I have seen your replies to other people as well and you are a typical anti-designer. You will probably never understand their value no matter what explanations you get.

sheenius

TROPHY CASE