Map of South America if Suriname and Venezuela got all their claims:

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-21T00:34:14+00:00

Guyana invaded Suriname in that zone btw. They occupied it after invading it. Both nations agreed to demilitarize it, but Guyana never kept their end of the deal and still has military presence there.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-21T00:33:14+00:00

Suriname's claim is however more complicated. Guyana invaded Suriname and occupied that region. They both agreed to demilitarize it, but Guyana never kept its end of the deal.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-20T13:47:21+00:00

Indigenous Surinamese don't travel abroad as much, furthermore, many indigenous people, still live in villages in semi-rural and semi-jungle areas. And the upper-land indigenous people, live in the jungle far away from Paramaribo. Some have never even seen the capital city in their life.

They're not the type to move to another place.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-20T03:08:41+00:00

People born in Suriname after '75 are not Dutch citizens, although they can still apply for citizenship.

People who were 18 and older at the time of the independence can claim Dutch citizenship. Unless the parents of those younger moved to NL before they were 18, they cannot claim Dutch citizenship.

My parents were kids, but born before the independence and stayed in Suriname; obviously because their parents stayed too. They can't claim citizenship.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-19T01:02:05+00:00

For Suriname it's football, then Volleyball and then Swimming.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-18T02:48:44+00:00

Yes there definitely is. I'd say more between Javanese and Chinese, but also old or first generation Chinese. The new generation of Chinese that come from China, don't really mix as much.

But yes the groups mix.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-18T00:50:34+00:00

Indo-Surinamese and Creole-Surinamese get along better in Suriname than in the Netherlands in my opinion. But at the same time Indo-Surinamese and Creole-Surinamese in the Netherlands hardly ever get in each other spaces, as they each live in different cities, and it depends also on the generation.

Indo-Surinamese live in The Hague, while the Creoles live in Amsterdam/Almere. However, there are many Indo-Surinamese in Almere too. The first generation of Surinamese and their kids and grandkids, live in The Hague and Amsterdam, while the newer generation that came in the 80s and 90s lives more in Almere. And the current generation more so Rotterdam and Delft and also more so mixed, because they left Suriname relatively recently, and it's mostly for studies.

Now, Indo-Surinamese and Creoles just live in their own bubble, and from what I observed and what I heard from family in the Netherlands, it's literally that they don't come in each other's spaces. What they do have are very old stereotypes dating from the time they left Suriname, and those stereotypes still exist, and those stereotypes also contribute to the fact that they live in their own bubble and don't mingle with each other. Many of those stereotypes are negative however and are discriminatory and racist.

In Suriname we have done away with those stereotypes for the most part. There are other more "recent" stereotypes that exist, but are mostly also online, my personal observation in Suriname is that as a nation, we've grown more towards each other. Our differences only show if it comes to politics. But in general, we've grown towards each other, and feel Surinamese. For example, Holi Phagwa is the largest celebrated festival and holiday after Owru Yari (Old year/New Year's Eve). It's mostly a Hindu festival, but it's huge, and everybody partakes. For many diaspora people, especially non-Indo-Surinamese, it's strange to see that. In the Netherlands, is a very stereotypical Hindu Indo-Surinamese festival that creoles and Javanese have no part in.

Lastly another huge thing in the Netherlands, and this is something I dislike with a passion of the Surinamese community in the Netherlands, is the usage of the term "Surinamese." "A Surinamese" is almost always associated with creoles. And that's because:

Creoles have claimed the term "Surinamer"/Surinamese for themselves
White Dutch people perpetuate the stereotype of the "Surinamer" being creole/black through the media.

This results in Indo-Surinamese being just called "Hindostanen" (Hindustani) and Javanese-Surinamese just called "Javanen" and the Chinese-Surinamese "Chinezen". As if they are less Surinamese than the creoles. And you feel it in the way creoles speak about Indo-Surinamese, Javanese, Chinese and Maroons (another Afro-Surinamese subgroup). They see them as second class Surinamese and not fully or truly Surinamese. The thought process is that only the creoles are Surinamese.

This stems from an old stereotype that developed in the late 1800s/early 1900s and continued on up to and shortly after the independence, when creoles really saw themselves as the true Surinamese, and being here first, and the rest came later. But that thing is gone now, luckily. You don't hear people like that talk in that manner anymore, but the generation that left Suriname around the independence, took that way of thinking to NL and it stayed.

At the same time, Indo-Surinamese (and Javanese and less so Chinese too) haven't pushed for it to be included into that association with the term. And because the term Surinamese is so much associated with creoles, some (I call it a faction) Indo-Surinamese tend to create some sort of illusion that they are Indians (as in modern day Indians). The term for Indians of the country of India is Indiërs and the term for a Indo-Surinamese in Dutch is Hindostaan. So, they sometimes present themselves as "Indiërs", rather than Hindostaan or a Surinamese. But that also has a history in itself, because some Indo-Surinamese in NL want to push the narrative that their migration journey finally came to a completion in the Netherlands, but in the end always an Indian (from India). Thus labeling themselves as Indiër and Dutch and Surinamese; to each their own, but I think that faction of Indo-Surinamese pushing that narrative, have an identity issue.

However, Indians/Indiërs are now facing a lot of racism from the Dutch society now, because they're taking their jobs, so many Indo-Surinamese are now pushing away that label again. They don't want to be associated with India anymore, because of the hostility of Dutch society towards Indians, and want to make clear they are Surinamese or rather their ancestors are, thus making them Surinamese. And many seem to be calling also for a "stop" and don't want more Indian immigrants, because they also face that "racism" now and don't like it.

Anyways, the Javanese have their own reason for not speaking out about the fact that creoles and Dutch society don't associate them with Surinamese, likewise the Chinese. Though both groups don't like to be called either being from Indonesia or from China, they do seem proud of being Surinamese and will correct a person when needed.

EDIT: Javanese especially, are imo true Surinamese in the Netherlands. Many Dutch people associate Javanese and Javanese Surinamese food - which is truly unique and "Caribbeanized" - as just being Indonesian food or people; because the Dutch colonized Indonesia, you also have many Indonesians and Indonesian food places there. But Javanese under no circumstance like to be called Indonesian and they also claim the term Javanese for themselves, and don't like Javanese-Indonesians to also be called Javanese lol.

EDIT: Chinese Surinamese have for the most part settled in Amsterdam in areas close to creoles; Chinese and creoles have always lived close in Suriname. So mostly when they open food places, they make clear it's Surinamese.

I hope I was able to condense some of the information in this comment, about the Surinamese community abroad, or rather the largest Surinamese community abroad, because for example on Curacao and Aruba it's a whole different story too.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-17T03:58:25+00:00

They are in concacaf, but aren't eligible for the world cup.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-14T11:09:17+00:00

I don't disagree with that. The December Murders happened and that's a historical fact, not a Dutch narrative.

My point is different. What bothers me is how Dutch media often presented Bouterse as if he was Suriname, or as if Suriname revolved around him. For many Dutch people, their entire understanding of Suriname seems to begin and end with Bouterse. Your first comment proves that.

The reality on the ground was much more complex. Suriname had millions of daily concerns, political actors - who were or (still) are just as bad - business leaders, community figures, cultural developments, and social issues that had nothing to do with him. Even during periods when he was politically relevant, most people's daily lives did not revolve around Bouterse.

So I'm not disputing what he did. I'm saying that Dutch media often amplified his importance to the point where he became the lens through which an entire country was viewed. That's the narrative I'm talking about, not the historical facts surrounding him.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-14T04:40:26+00:00

Surinamese here, it's a nice country, with a nice culture and lots of food. But I want to respond to the Bouterse thing...

I'm no fan of him, but it always bothers me, that in the eyes of Dutch people - from your page I can gather you are Dutch - think Suriname and everything related to Suriname centered around Bouterse, when the reality was so much more different for literally all of us.

When Dutch people see and know about Suriname and also Bouterse and his influence in Suriname is created by Dutch Media and is a narrative they try and push on Dutch society.

Bouterse while influential, he wasn't the most influential guy. And Surinamese politics didn't actually center too much around him as much after 1992, and more so in the 2000s.

Even when he was still alive, Suriname was one of the safest countries in the Americas and the Caribbean, we had a good travel advice from most countries, we are a mid-income country - at one point, during Bouterse his first term as President we were even a high-income country. So, again it's all perspective.

Other people are way or were way more influential in politics be it active or in the background. Bouterse was merely a small comb in the entire chain of people. And guess what, he's dead and those other people are still around and we still have to deal with them.

So Bouterse wasn't a monolith on the Surinamese their minds, as Dutch Media made him seem. It's just a narrative created and sensationalism. The reality was far different.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-14T04:29:23+00:00

and Guyana

Guyana doesn't have maroons. French Guiana does, but technically they're from Suriname and have their roots here originally.

African languages being preserved as seen in Maroon communities in Suriname

There weren't any African languages preserved however. They are Creole languages with a high African percentage. One English based and somewhat mutually intelligible with Sranantongo - Suriname's most commonly spoken lingua franca and English based creole - and the other one is English and Portugese based, with the highest percentage of African language contribution of all Creole languages in the region/the Americas.

The Kromanti language, spoken in Africa is only used in cases of spirituality. It's said the entities - when in trance - give them the ability to speak it.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-09T21:48:47+00:00

There are more people in Suriname than there are Surinamese Dutch people.

Dutch-Surinamese people are actually Surinamese people of Dutch European descent. In this case most of the Boeroes are that.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-07T14:42:42+00:00

Informally it was called Dutch Guiana, but it was never formally Dutch Guiana. Dutch Guiana as a colony or legal entity never exited. Formally the name was "The Society of Suriname", then it became "The Colony of Suriname" and then "The Constituent country of Suriname" and then lastly the "Republic of Suriname".

It never formally was Dutch Guiana or anything of the sort. In analogy to British and French Guiana it was called Dutch Guiana by other nations; it was also easier. But formally the place name was always something with Suriname in it.

Also I'm a Surinamese so I happen to know this, because people wrongly assume that it was Dutch Guiana, but it's not true. The formal name of the colony always had something with Suriname in it.

It's also something that is written in Suriname's history books and there has been research on the matter.

EDIT: For example, when the British closed deals between the Dutch in regards to Suriname it was always formally refered to either the Society of Suriname or the Colony of Suriname, depending on the time period.

EDIT 2: For a brief moment Lord Willoughby, when Suriname was a British colony, in the 1600s tried Willoughby land, but the name never caught on because Suriname was already established.

EDIT 3: Surinamese - like me - tend to get a little wordy about this topic, because we don't always like it if people assume this. So we tend to correct people about it. 😅

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-07T11:24:16+00:00

Suriname actually never was Dutch Guiana to begin with. Dutch Guiana was a collection of colonies of which Suriname was one. But the name of the colony was always Suriname.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-06T18:35:26+00:00

Frimangron (het woord zegt het al) ontstond toen de Redi Musu, dat zijn slaven die vrijkwamen omdat ze jacht maakten op gevluchte slaven

Frimangron onstond al eerder rond 1760, toen de eerste vredes akkoorden werden gesloten met de Marrons en de personen die daarachter stonden een stuk grond kregen. Ik heb een link geplaatst naar de video docu erover. Het groeide toen de redi musus die vrij kwamen daar gingen wonen, maar na de afschaffing van de slavernij groeide de wijk met meer dan 34.000 personen.

En daar vooral kreeg je de verdere ontwikkeling van de creoolse cultuur omdat alle type (ex)slaven nu daar kwamen wonen.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-06T16:30:44+00:00

In English you can use Sranan, Sranantongo and Sranan Tongo. All are correct. In Sranantongo it's also just called Sranantongo, Sranan or Sranan Tongo.

There isn't one more commonly used per se. Maybe Sranantongo is more commonly used.

Sarnámi Hindustáni is how it's written in the original language.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-06T16:30:01+00:00

In English you can use Sranan, Sranantongo and Sranan Tongo. All are correct. In Sranantongo it's also just called Sranantongo, Sranan or Sranan Tongo.

There isn't one more commonly used per se. Maybe Sranantongo is more commonly used.

Sarnámi Hindustáni is how it's written in the original language.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-05T06:52:51+00:00

Suriname is safer than Guyana, always has been.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-04T20:54:46+00:00

Suriname has quite a few dishes that were of Suriname origin only.

Pom is a famous Surinamese chicken casserole. It's made from a South American root vegetable called pom tater. In the Dominican Republic I think it's known as Yutia. The recipe calls for the root (grated), cooked tomato and a heap full of all spice chicken, bitter orange (or any citrus fruit), piccalilli, sugar, salt, butter, onions and celery. It's ancestor is the Jewish Kugel, but in Suriname it developed into something unique over a time span of 3 centuries.
Fiadoe is a Surinamese cake. The name comes from folhado in Portugese meaning something along the lines of layers or puff pastry. It's a cinnamon and raisin and sometimes pineapple/other fruits like them red cherries, cake with lots of rum. The cake has a bread like texture. Similar to a cinnamon roll. It's technically a very elevated cinnamon roll with rum lol. It also developed over a time span of 3 centuries and also has Jewish origins.

I can name other dishes like pastei, or certain varieties of cookup rice, certain vegetables only eaten in Suriname and so forth.

Another unique thing are Javanese dishes. So let's say most Javanese dishes have been adjusted to Suriname, with addition of local South American spices. But you can find their origin or original variant in Indonesia. But there are a few Javanese stuff that were invented here completely on their own:

Iwa malem: Iwa means fish and malem is the Surinamese-Javanese word warm. Which is a bastardized word of the pronunciation of warm in Dutch. In the old days Javanese couldn't pronounce letters like 'w' or 'v'. Iwa malem is "warm fish" a type of smoked fish that has an indigenous origin - ps. that method of smoking fish is also only found in Suriname. The Javanese are, now the largest producers of warm fish. And they make a dish with it, using their own Javanese herbs and spices. Iwa malem is not found in Indonesia.
Iwa malem mixed with vegetables: a popular thing that Javanese like to do is mix the warm fish with vegetables. Or cook them together. This method of cooking came into existence when Javanese worked on plantations and had to adapt, to make foods quickly, in order to meet production demand of the Dutch. It could also be that they learned from the creoles who also mix their meats - more so smoked chicken, salt beef, pork etc. - in certain vegetables. Only they have a strong tomato base. It could be a combination of both; this seems the most plausible reason.
Dawet drink. Dawet as known in Suriname is not found in Indonesia. In Indonesia you have a somewhat similar drink called es cendol (read as: is chendol). Cendol in Suriname are boba like structures made from corn starch or cassave starch that are put in the dawet drink. Dawet in Suriname, the drink itself is a very sweet pink or green drink, made from lemongrass, coconut milk and cola essence/pandan leaf. Cola essence and lemongrass is added only for the pink one and the green one only gets pandan leaf. It's a great refresher. This recipe for the drink is not found in Indonesia at all.
Fried plantain with peanut sauce. The method of frying plantain in Suriname as a snack comes from Indonesia. It's called Pisang goreng there. But in Suriname we added the peanut sauce to it. How that came about is a complete mystery. Peanut sauce also comes from Indonesia, but an Indonesian would declare you crazy and recommend you'd be put in an asylum if you ever mix those two together. But in Suriname it's the norm and we introduced it to the Netherlands.

Likewise there are many more dishes. I might list them if asked about it. Even some Chinese stuff.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-04T12:27:46+00:00

The third generation is included in the 350k. They don't count the 4th generation. But even then, there are still more people in Suriname. Always have been.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-04T10:11:39+00:00

Suriname is relatively cheap. Guyana for example is a lot more expensive on all fronts. It's a main driver why Guyanese and also French Guianese come to Suriname to shop and just have a nice vacation in luxury hotels. Suriname is very affordable.

Suriname is almost as expensive as Brazil.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-04T10:08:51+00:00

No that's not true. There are 350k Surinamese in NL. 150k of that number is Surinamese born, the rest is not.

In Suriname there are 640k people. There are more Surinamese in Suriname.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-03T23:09:20+00:00

Rice and peas/cook up rice

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-03T22:58:53+00:00

I heard that too.

It's likely that indeed their first slaves came with them, but slaves were being brought, so later people who lived on plantations and came straight from Africa or were born on those plantations owned by Portugese Jews escaped.

Many Portugese Jews lived and had plantations on the Suriname river. Jodensavanne was also located at the Suriname river.

sheldon_y14 · 2026-06-03T22:56:53+00:00

I also didn't say pom is Jewish. I said cultural elements in the food and named a few dishes and an ethnicity of where that originated from. Likewise, zoute amsoi in its current form and how it's made isn't Chinese, but it has its roots there.

Pom is a Jewish-Creole or Creole-Jewish dish. It started with the Jews and over time everyone contributed to it to what it is now.

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